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Thread: Ethanol in Fuel.

  1. #11
    Dana's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackhills View Post
    Why the big push to have it in fuel when it make no sense to produce?
    Note the number of corn farmers in states whose senators have voted for ethanol in fuel...

  2. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Blackhills View Post
    Thanks everyone for the response! What are Utah state laws concerning ethanol? Why the big push to have it in fuel when it make no sense to produce?
    PACs for the corn industry. Jumped the price of corn, then beef due to feed costs, etc. etc.....
    IMO

  3. #13
    flyunleaded's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackhills View Post
    ... What are Utah state laws concerning ethanol?
    Utah has no mandatory state ethanol laws. Only Minnesota, Hawaii, Missouri, Oregon, and Florida have mandatory state E10 laws, all of them with exceptions for aviation use, but no guarantee that any ethanol free gasoline must be available. Washington has a mandatory 2% volumetric law which means nothing any more in the face of the federal Renewable Fuel Standards mandated in EISA 2007 which is having the unintended consequences of taking all auto gasoline in the country E10 by the end of next year. To understand why see: www.e0pc.com

    Why the big push to have it in fuel when it make no sense to produce?
    Because in 2007 congress thought it would be good idea to reduce demand for foreign oil by building a huge renewable fuel infrastructure around E85 and flex-fuel vehicles. Hasn't worked out as planned. Congress embedded an ever increasing mandatory ethanol quota in the law without any requirement as to how the gasoline producers blended it. Since nobody wants E85, it is all going into making E10. Next year the mandatory ethanol quota will swamp the gasoline pool and after that they be swimming in ethanol with no place to put it. If you read the RFS section in EISA 2007 you will see that E85 is the only Renewable Fuel defined, E10 is never mentioned, but all gasoline is going to be E10. E10 IS NOT Renewable Fuel, it is gasoline laced with 10% ethanol and still meets ASTM D4814 which is the gasoline required by the EAA and Petersen STCs ... without ethanol.

    If you want to keep track of where this is going as it concerns aviation read our fuels blog at General Aviation News.

  4. #14

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    I realize this may not be the ideal forum for this, but it is on topic so I'll take the opportunity for a little shameless promotion. My company, PortableFuelSystems.com, just introduced the Alcohol Separation System at the Copperstate Fly-In last week. I got tired of fighting the ethanol issues, so I designed the device to deal with the problem my own way. You can see it at www.PortableFuelSystems.com.

  5. #15
    Tekno,
    Great system but what happens to the octane rating when you remove the alcohol?
    Thanks!

  6. #16

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    Great system but what happens to the octane rating when you remove the alcohol?
    Independent Lab Tests for Ethanol: Before 9.8%, after <0.1%
    Independent Lab Tests for Octane: Before 90.8, after 89.5

    You can see more system specs at: http://portablefuelsystems.com/AlcoholSeparator.htm
    there is also an FAQ section for this product at: http://portablefuelsystems.com/ASSfaqs.htm

    Thanks for the question!

  7. #17

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    Why do plane engines or at least some of the new ones like Rotax seem so sensitive to ethanol?
    I have never heard of anyone having any problems with their car from ethanol in fuel, you can just go to the gas station and fill up with whatever is in the pump, as long as the octane is sufficient. Even that seems flexible as you can use a lower octane, certainly 87, even 85 might do, unless you are driving a Ferrari or some such high power car.Most any car, no matter what brand car gas or where the station is or what state works ok.
    You certainly can get in any normal car, Chevy to Mercedes and drive across America, with no problems.
    And of course some race cars run on alcohol.
    Are pilots, or at least some of them making too much of a problem out of nothing?

    And as for as a political lobby for farmers and ethanol, nothing new in that, you may be sure that the oil and gas industry has no shortage of lobbyist, Rick Perry, Tom Coburn, etc. for gasoline use as do any farm state for ethanol.

  8. #18
    FlyingRon's Avatar
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    It's hell in the boating industry to. Ethanol is hydroscopic and it cause rust issues. I suspect you'd see problems with cars in humid areas especially ones that sit for periods.
    There's more rubber and aluminum in your aircraft for weight and other reasons than your car. Both have issues with ethanol.

  9. #19
    Eric Witherspoon's Avatar
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    Can't the ethanol have bad effects on some of the fuel tank materials we are allowed to use in aviation, which aren't found in cars? So it may not necessarily be all the engine, but the dissolved fuel tank heading through the fuel line that screws up the engine?
    Murphy's 13th: Every solution breeds new problems...

    http://www.spoonworld.com

  10. #20

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    Bill,
    Most of the problems with ethanol for cars was worked out 20 years or so ago. But I do recall doing LOTS of carb rebuilds, replacing fuel pumps ,etc "Back in the day". Now that everything is designed to work with alcohol, not such a problem

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