Well, somebody mentioned the FAA wanting the originals back before issuing new ones. I agree it shouldn't really be an issue, though.Originally Posted by 1600vw
Well, somebody mentioned the FAA wanting the originals back before issuing new ones. I agree it shouldn't really be an issue, though.
Maybe I should correct my previous statement. The FSDO will want you to turn in your Current Operation Limitations (in my case, the originals), then will issue you new ones. They shouldn't give you any problems over it. You could just as well tell them you lost your current Operating Limitations paperwork and ask them to issue you the latest version rather than sending you copies. If they are in the mood, there is no reason why it can't be accomplished in a day as all they have to do is fill in the blanks on a few pages of lawyer speak, then photocopy it for their records. My FSDO said it would take them a couple of weeks and could be handled via US Mail. Your local FSDO may work faster. My recent experience with FSDO is that they are spread pretty thin and really good at losing paperwork. A Ferry Permit I did with them recently convinced me that I don't want to hand those guys any important piece of paper as it's likely to get buried for months.
1600VW: I don't need a solution as I don't have a problem to resolve. Just not interested in playing FAA paperwork games right now.
-Cub Builder
I feel the exact same way. But I do want to get this done. I am not sure how to go about doing it.Maybe I should correct my previous statement. The FSDO will want you to turn in your Current Operation Limitations (in my case, the originals), then will issue you new ones. They shouldn't give you any problems over it. You could just as well tell them you lost your current Operating Limitations paperwork and ask them to issue you the latest version rather than sending you copies. If they are in the mood, there is no reason why it can't be accomplished in a day as all they have to do is fill in the blanks on a few pages of lawyer speak, then photocopy it for their records. My FSDO said it would take them a couple of weeks and could be handled via US Mail. Your local FSDO may work faster. My recent experience with FSDO is that they are spread pretty thin and really good at losing paperwork. A Ferry Permit I did with them recently convinced me that I don't want to hand those guys any important piece of paper as it's likely to get buried for months.
1600VW: I don't need a solution as I don't have a problem to resolve. Just not interested in playing FAA paperwork games right now.
-Cub Builder
1. Who picks the fly-off area?
2. Is there a forum one sends out to have this done? Example forum 8050-1 we all know we need that for a registration. What forum must be used for changing ones OL.
3. Does this cost?
4. What about all the specs ones OL should have but most don't. What happens here? I have seen a few OL and all these area's are blank. And yes the fly-ff of both Phase 1 and 2 is complete and signed off.
Questions I am sure many have. If I missed something or someone has different questions ask them here. Maybe Tom or someone in the know can give us all direction in this area.
Great thread. I need a Like Button. Because I like this thread.
Tony
A buddy of mine just did his 40 hr. Fly off. He told me that the FAA wanted him to do this fly off about 10 miles from our home field. I have problems with this. We all know these airplanes are not certified in any way. Problems come up and happen where one needs to get on the ground now more so then in a certified aircraft or airplane.
So this Brand New never flown airplane takes off and flies off out of sight. On the very first flight within mins of taking flight. I am pacing back and forth like a new father in the waiting room waiting on his first kid. I was asked why in the yeck did I care anyway. I said first there is a life in that airplane and second this hobby sport don't need the bad wrap that comes when things go wrong. About 25 mins goes by and here comes the airplane. He lands and the rear seat is full of fuel from a fuel leak. Everyone was very lucky.
The FAA did not want him doing his fly-off above our field because we border on the edge of class C airspace. But Ultralights and me even fly right above this field on most nice days. We do not fly off. We stay by the private airfield.
My point what the FAA wanted from this new aircraft and pilot, just was not safe. I would not have done it. I careless what someone setting behind some desk has to say about it. The FAA put a lot at stake doing this, but none of them would have had to pay the price if things went wrong, as they did. We as a group dodged a bullet that day as did the pilot. This never should have happened.
Tony
Last edited by 1600vw; 05-16-2015 at 08:23 AM.
The man who owns this airplane I speak of in the above post, is an A&P. He did do ground test and even crow hopped the airplane. He put a few hrs on it before its first flight. The fuel leak happened in flight. The test pilot could not see it but he smelt it. He was shocked when he saw how much fuel was on that seat.
So I would say the FAA or FSDO office gives out the fly-off area. One does not request an area?
Tony
Last edited by 1600vw; 05-16-2015 at 08:37 AM.
The FAA chooses the test area. I'm sure you can suggest it, and if it's reasonable they will probably approve it. It's the kind of thing where you can simply fill out a form and send it in, but a preliminary phone conversation would go a long way in preventing any surprises.
I'm still waiting for a response from the FSDO (they're pretty slow).
Keep us posted Dana and maybe someone else will chime in with more info.
I went to our local FSDO one day. I just drove up got out of the car and walked up to find a locked door. I stood there for about 10 mins scratching my head wondering why any government office would be lock to the American citizens its there to support when some dude walked up. He asked what was I doing. I told him I was going after my SP certificate and needed a Student Pilot forum. He informed me that these FSDO offices are always locked and I need to call in advance. No one can just walk up. I said just imagine if the DMV operated this way, no one would get anything done. I know how to influence people and make friends...lol
He looked around for a few mins behind this desk then looks up to me and says, I have no idea what you want, thank you and goodbye. I went to OshKosh and received my Student Certificate. My point, to my minds eye and after dealing with our local FSDO, don't expect much help from them when dealing with an EAB and SP. They are lost or was back then. This happened in 2010.
I bet that door is still locked today. I really feel welcome there.Don't tell me this is because of 911. Every other government office I have been to is unlocked during normal hrs. But because this is the FSDO for aviation it must be locked, really.
I mentioned this before and was told its because of 911 that these doors are locked. I got a good laugh from that.
Tony
Last edited by 1600vw; 05-16-2015 at 10:59 AM.
I picked my Flight area... and the FAA approved it ... It was a 50 mile Diameter
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Gotta Fly...
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In the airplane I fly and the one like Dana flies, a 50 mile radius will take me quite a while to travel. Maybe something with speeds up in the triple digits maybe. But with a ground speed of 60 - 65 like most of us have flying a single seat EAB 50 miles is a long distance. I call it a x-country trip in my Fisher airplane.
I've been through the process twice now with two different experimental aircraft. Once because I changed the N-number and the second time because I needed to change the flight test area from the builder's east coast area to my midwest location due to a major alteration. The best way to do it is in-person. Call your nearest FSDO and tell them what you want to do and ask to speak to the inspector who will be handling it. During that phone call, (a) tell the inspector what you want to do (obtain a new Operating Limitation), (b) why you need to do it, (c) suggest your preferred test area, (d) exchange e-mail addresses and phone numbers, (e) make a future appointment to get it done, and finally (f) tell him what documents you will send him in advance and how, and encourage the inspector to call or e-mail you if he has any questions prior to the appointment. If he/she will, it's even a good idea to ask for a draft copy be faxed or e-mailed to you prior to the appointment.
Next, fax or e-mail the inspector a copy of your existing aircraft registration, airworthiness certificate, and operating limitations so he'll have something to start working with.
FSDO inspectors have a thick book of step-by-step guidelines that are very specific in how to do almost everything they do. Do your homework and know the airspace where you are requesting your test area. If the area you request is acceptable, that's what you'll get. If it isn't, work with them to get an area that works well for you. It can be a give-and-take discussion.
Take all your paperwork to your appointment. Most inspectors rarely do operating limitations. Expect some mistakes. Read the operating limits very carefully to ensure accuracy before you walk out of there.
1. Who picks the test area? You do, but they have to approve it.
2. Form? None. Don't bother to draft your own version. What will and will not be included is in their specific guidance. They'll prepare the draft.
3. Does it cost? No. Just your time.
4. What goes in the OL changes from time to time. If you've completed phase 1 & 2, you should still define a test area nearby in the event you need it in the future.
My FSDO issued new OL's and required me to sign them. The inspector said a new OL should be issued every time the aircraft ownership changes so the owner's signature is on the OL. I asked what reg requires that, where can I find it, and how should I know that. The answer was that it was only in their guidance documents. Unless you have a need to revise your OL, I see no need to revise them until you do (e.g., tail number change, major alteration, etc.)
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