Potential gotchas for new student pilots if PBOR2 passes.

[tech10002]

Another member brought up a good point in another thread about how the expanded driver's license medical would be implemented if it passes. I thought this was important enough to warrant a new thread, as it's something I've been wondering about myself.

How will a new potential private pilot go about his training once he gets to the solo point? Since your student pilot's certificate is integral with your medical there will be no way to legally solo a certificated aircraft, which I believe the private requires. All the proposed legislation is silent on directing the FAA to establish a private student pilot certificate that doesn't require a medical. I'm sure there are other areas of the law that need to be changed too, like what a DPE is required to have from the student to issue a certificate--undoubtedly a medical being one of them. Can we really count on the FAA to do this unless they are forced by law? What I think will happen if this passes as it's written is it will be a boon to current private pilots who want to drop the hassle of the medical, but it won't do a thing for anyone wanting to start out.

Would it be possible to amend the wording to direct the FAA to establish a student pilot certificate similar to what sport pilot students receive now? Alternatively, maybe just writing the legislation where it makes the sport pilot student certificate valid for all aircraft up to 6000 pounds would work.

I am far from an expert, but I thought a dialog about these issues would be helpful. I am definitely not being critical of all the hard work EAA, AOPA, and the senators and congressmen are doing. I think it's probably the most important potential boost for general aviation since the sport pilot certificate. I am just one of the many potential new pilots who has been awaiting something like this since I can remember and don't want to be left out.

[Todd copeland]

Going purely on what I read on another forum, it's already changing for student pilots. My understanding is that there will not be a student certificate, just logbook entries that will serve the purpose. May or may not be true.

[Dana]

There is no "private student pilot certificate" and "sport pilot student certificate"... there's just a single student certificate, combined with a medical or otherwise. The one without medical is the same one that's been used for years for glider and balloon students. In theory a student working on a PP could get a plain student certificate from the FSDO or DPE, and a separate medical certificate from an AME. The combination certificate is just for convenience.

[TedK]

Can you get a Student Pilot certificate from a DPE? My daughter had to go to the FSDO when she was working on her Sport Pilot.

[tech10002]

It's good to know I was mistaken on the student pilot certificate. When I was training as a sport pilot my instructor called it the "sport pilot student certificate." I just assumed it was only for light sport aircraft. I never actually got to see the certificate, though. We were supposed to go get it from the FSDO soon but the school went out of business a couple days later not even a week before I was supposed to solo. Doh!! There are no other flight schools with a light sport within 300 miles. That's why its so important to me for this to pass.

My other concern still seems to be a potential problem, though. The PTS standards definitely require a medical as part of the checkride. It's on page 30 of the PTS: https://www.faa.gov/training_testing...S-8081-14B.pdf

Could the FAA just do nothing to change this effectively barring any new private pilots without a medical?

[rwanttaja]

Could the FAA just do nothing to change this effectively barring any new private pilots without a medical?

"Could", yes. Would...I doubt it. Other than tick off the people who control its budget (Congress), the FAA wouldn't have anything to gain by this.

In any case, the FAA itself is in favor of the medical reform, all the way up to the administrator. They're not likely to get in a snit when it goes through.

And of *course* other rules, other policies, will need to be updated with a change as radical as this. That's likely to have been some of the delay within the FAA, determining where the budget/people will come from to update regs/policies and determining the schedule of completion.

Ron Wanttaja

[Frank Giger]

Yep, I'm thinking that "reform" of the medical is just that - reform, not removal. I truly believe that the FAA will dig its heels in on this matter, and that our friendly alphabet organizations will let it slide.

Student pilots and Sport Pilots like me that want to get a PPL will have to get a medical. Yes, it would be one-and-done, but the current proposals don't eliminate the requirements for a Class III physical for solo or check ride as I read them.

Should the EAA and AOPA fight hard on this? No. At least not now. Perfect is the enemy of good, and there's too much good in what's cooking now to throw in what could be a spoiler to the whole process. We know from Sport Pilots and Ultralight guys (as well as Private Pilots flying under Sport Pilot rules) what the statistics on wrecks caused by pilot incapacitation due to medical issues will be in five or ten years - almost nil. But we'll need that body of statistical data under the new rules to justify a change.

Closing the loophole at that point would be a minor rule change, not a huge rigamarole, and wouldn't have to go to the OMB and the DOT.

The worst thing we could do is be spring butts in a meeting and saying "so what about..." at the last minute.

[Tom Charpentier]

This is a good question, and one I've heard several times. Let me preface my response by saying that we need to get the legislation and/or regulation passed before we worry too much about the nuances of implementation.

That said, this is a thankfully easy one to answer - the PBOR2 says:

...the Administrator of the Federal Aviation Administration shall issue or revise medical certification regulations to ensure that an individual may operate as pilot in command of a covered aircraft without regard to any medical certification or proof of health requirement otherwise applicable under Federal law... [if the following conditions are met, etc...]

Note that it says "may operate as pilot in command," not "may operate as a private/recreational pilot." A student pilot soloing would be covered, as they are acting as PIC (as you probably know, this is the only operation requiring a student certificate, for that reason). A prospective student would simply obtain a student certificate independent of a medical in the same way every student for glider, balloon, and sport pilot ratings do. I know the PTS has that language, but it's reflective of what's currently in the FARs. The PTS is a policy document, and policy is supposed to be consistent with the regulations. Essentially regulating via the PTS that a student must have a medical wouldn't hold up to scrutiny.

It's also worth pointing out that our original petition for exemption intended to allow for private/recreational pilot certification without a 3rd Class medical.

[Frank Giger]

Stop bringing bothersome facts into what would otherwise be an interesting and spirited discussion, please.