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Thread: RV tail kit 98% complete

  1. #1

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    RV tail kit 98% complete

    My question is. If i buy a RV 7 tail kit that is "98%" complete. what affect does that have on me and my authority to do my own maintenance?

  2. #2
    Dana's Avatar
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    Shhhh....

  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by Miata View Post
    My question is. If i buy a RV 7 tail kit that is "98%" complete. what affect does that have on me and my authority to do my own maintenance?
    There are probably two issues here:

    First, when the airplane is finished, will at least 51% of the tasks have been performed by you or other amatures? If so, you can get the aircraft inspected and have an airworthyness certificate issued in the Experimental/Amature Built Category.

    Second, if you take part in building the airplane you are eligible to be issued the Repairman's certificate for the airplane allowing you to do the Condition Inspection (AKA the "Annual") on the airplane. Note: Only one repairman's certificate can be issued for a particular airplane.

    Regardless of these issues, anyone can work on an experimental, but it requires the Repairman's Certificate for someone who isn't A&P or IA to do the condition inspection.
    Last edited by Kyle Boatright; 11-13-2011 at 02:33 PM.

  4. #4
    Eric Witherspoon's Avatar
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    Nothing at all*. You can buy a completed and flying homebuilt and do all your own maintenance. Best-kept secret in used airplanes.

    Let me say that again - there is no requirement for anyone doing work on homebuilts. Anyone can do it. Now is that safe? Maybe, maybe not. Should you have someone with experience review what you're doing or show you how to do it? At some point, yes. But the rules allow anyone to build the entire airplane from the ground up, so there isn't some magic cross-over point where suddenly anyone isn't allowed to turn wrenches on it. (Major modifications may come with conditions including notifying the local FSDO - check the ops lims for the airplane in question, but just maintenance - wide open.)

    Only thing you can't do with a completed and flying homebuilt that you bought (as far as activities people might include in the "maintenance" category) is to sign for the annual condition inspection, unless you're an A&P or hold the Repairman Certificate for that particular airplane.

    So I think what you're really asking is, if you buy a completed tail, would you be able to apply for the Repairman's Certificate that allows the certificate holder to sign for the annual condition inspection of the one homebuilt that the certificate is for. Answer to that is, like so much else that is regulated is, it depends. Even though the answer is "it depends", it's quite likely not to make a difference.

    Here's why:
    The RC to sign for the ACI can be issued IF the airplane is "51%" amateur built. (See AC 20-27G for how to determine "51%". I put it in quotes because I'm not using the official language - but "51%" conveys the idea of majority of the build being done by amateurs - and in the FAA's definition, "majority" isn't based on the number of hours - see the AC.)

    So, if the tail you buy, like so many RV tail kits, is just from an amateur-builder's not-going-any-farther project, and you can document the "amateur built" status of the tail, then the tail pedigree will not have any impact on the "51-percentness" of the build. It's amateur-built, helping the rest of the project stay in the amateur built category.
    If the tail you buy is "professionally built", as in you contract with an A&P or something to just build it for you, then that counts against the "51-percentness" of the project. But if you're doing that, why bother? Just buy a flying RV-7 and save the years of build time. Buying an already-flying example will be much lower cost than hiring others to build it for you anyway.

    As was pointed out in another posting on here recently, you don't even need to have built any of the RV in question to apply for the Repairman's Certificate. So long as you can document that it's "51%" amateur-built, and nobody else has applied for that make/model/serial number, then it's possible that you could get the RC. I don't know for a fact that the FAA would be interested in granting an RC to a 3rd-party "amateur" like this, but here's a case where I know RC's are granted to individuals who did not, themselves, build 51% of the aircraft in question:

    Group build projects. For example, 10 people go in together to build 10 airplanes. One's a welder, one's a painter, one's a fabric expert, one builds engines, one is a machinist, one does aircraft wiring & radios, etc. They each contribute their own specialty to the 10 amateur-built airplanes. Then, when they are done, each of the airplanes is given/assigned to an individual owner. Each of these individuals then applies for the RC for the airplane that is theirs. I saw an article or article series about this a while back - that documented that this has been done.

    *if the pre-built tail were professionally built, which it probably isn't, but if it was, the airplane would still qualify for E-AB certification if that tail doesn't kick it over the line to <51% amateur built. So, given that it certifies as E-AB, then there is nothing that prevents you from doing any/all maintenance-type work yourself, no additional licensing or approvals required.
    Last edited by Eric Witherspoon; 11-13-2011 at 03:08 PM. Reason: clarification
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  5. #5

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    98% complete, only 40% left to finish.

    Looking at the standards, the question is whether or not the builder built the plane. If you throw some rivets in it, you've completed the tasks of building the tail.

    It's the gray area that can get some builder's assists into trouble - the exceptions that prove the rule where the shop does most of the work with some pro forma effort by the owner - but if you finish the tail section you get credit for all of the tail.

    In my build, I took advantage of the builder's assist program the kit designer has. When we built the fuselage, for example, I went down the top of the side of the fuselage drilling and riveting while Jim (an Airdrome employee) was going down the bottom. I get full credit for the fuselage - even though Jim and Robert are listed in the "help" section of the paperwork.

    On the gear, Robert did most of the work as it was as much an instruction session as a build one, and I really, really wanted the gear to be perfect. However, I crimped the swages and put on the bungees as well as fine tuning clearances on the gussets that hold the axel. Again, I get full credit for the gear.

    Given the complexity of the rest of the aircraft, even if a builder got a zero on the tail section he'd still get a "51%" score on the build when the rest of the thing is accounted for.
    The opinions and statements of this poster are largely based on facts and portray a possible version of the actual events.

  6. #6

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    I sure am impressed by the depth of knowledge on this subject! However, I get the impression that there is no way I can be 100% sure of receiving a repairman's certificate unless I personally can prove that I built 100% of the 51% of the RV 7 kit. Thanks for your time and information.
    posted by confused and bewildered wanna-be builder

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Miata View Post
    I sure am impressed by the depth of knowledge on this subject! However, I get the impression that there is no way I can be 100% sure of receiving a repairman's certificate unless I personally can prove that I built 100% of the 51% of the RV 7 kit. Thanks for your time and information.
    posted by confused and bewildered wanna-be builder
    You've misinterpreted things. As long as 51% of the airplane was amateur built, the airplane can be registered. At that point any one of the people who worked on the airplane can get the repairman's certificate for that plane. Even you!

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