Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 27

Thread: ADSB?

  1. #1

    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    FA40
    Posts
    767

    ADSB?

    OK, I'm confused again. I thought every aircraft in Alaska was outfitted with ADSB to prevent midair collisions?

    http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/02/01...cmp=latestnews

  2. #2
    FlyingRon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    NC26 (Catawba, NC)
    Posts
    2,627
    It's only good if it's turned on and people are paying attention to it. The CAPSTONE units don't have the assertiveness of TCAS in screaming at the pilots.

  3. #3

    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Alabama
    Posts
    2,236
    I've always thought of ADSB as a precautionary tool in that it advises a pilot of aircraft that are in proximity of one's own - but only that. "Hey, there's an aircraft within three miles...two miles...one miles from you," letting one know to (and where to) look for it, much in the same way that a radio traffic call out at an uncontrolled airfield does.

    ADSB will tell one where an aircraft is, but not where it's going. Even a track is historical and a predictive one would only be predictive.

    Data and information are two different things, and as pilots we have to remind ourselves of it as we get more whiz-bangs.

    A tachometer can tell us RPM's are dropping. The altimeter can tell us we're losing altitude. The throttle can tell us we haven't changed the setting. It's only by turning all of that data into information that gets us to pull the carb heat handle, as an example.
    The opinions and statements of this poster are largely based on facts and portray a possible version of the actual events.

  4. #4
    Gunslinger37's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    57AZ
    Posts
    59
    On Monday the FAA made a correction to the ADS-B rule that opens the door to non-TSO products that meet the requirements but have not been through the expensive TSO testing. This wording change is substantial. This might allow the manufacturers to make lower cost units, perhaps even hand-held ADS-B products, for the Experimental, LSA, even VFR GA low end aircraft. See more in the EAA News section.
    Last edited by Gunslinger37; 02-11-2015 at 03:46 PM.

  5. #5
    TedK's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Pax River MD
    Posts
    365
    Quote Originally Posted by Gunslinger37 View Post
    On Monday the FAA made a correction to the ADS-B rule that opens the door to non-TSO products that meet the requirements but have not been through the expensive TSO testing. This wording change is substantial. This might allow the manufacturers to make lower cost units, perhaps even hand-held ADS-B products, for the Experimental, LSA, even VFR GA low end aircraft. See more in the EAA News section.

    EAA News article:

    https://www.eaa.org/en/eaa/eaa-news-...wer-cost-ads-b

  6. #6
    steve's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Utah
    Posts
    200
    The non-TSO'd equipment must still perform like TSO gear. Therefore it must be tested. Therefore the manufacturer might as well apply for the TSO. What lower cost units?
    Until the FAA changes the rule to allow non-ADS-B Out equipped airplanes to fly under the Class B layers inside the 30 nm veil, it's game over for many pilots and airplane owners.

  7. #7

    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Tehachapi, CA
    Posts
    219
    Quote Originally Posted by steve View Post
    The non-TSO'd equipment must still perform like TSO gear. Therefore it must be tested. Therefore the manufacturer might as well apply for the TSO. What lower cost units?
    Until the FAA changes the rule to allow non-ADS-B Out equipped airplanes to fly under the Class B layers inside the 30 nm veil, it's game over for many pilots and airplane owners.
    Disagree. There are already units that are low cost that do ADS-B out. Skyguard TWX sells a transceiver for $1500:

    http://adsb.skyguardtwx.com

    While they are in the process of applying for a TSO (so therefore believe that they've met the technical requirements), this unit works (I know folks that have them), puts you into the system in what would be a legal manner and while not exceedingly cheap, is not out of line for avionics. It's MUCH cheaper than the current batch of TSO's units, which start around $3K - $4K, and the sky's the limit.

    I imagine that many of the other ADS-B IN unit MFG's will add ADS-B OUT to their systems, especially if they know that the Exp. market is looking for this and the FAA explicitly allows it.

    I don't think the FAA needs to do anything more than they've just done (and it's not even obvious they needed to do that, since, assuming the TWX system gets its TSO approval, there'd be a TSO'd unit on the market for $1500) to ensure that the game is not over for many pilots and owners.

  8. #8
    cub builder's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    North Central AR
    Posts
    456
    Skyguard's web site says they will come out with a TSO kit once the TSO rules are complete. They don't claim to meet the TSO performance standard. However, I believe their equipment does meet the performance standard. Their TSO kit was to contain 1) an external mount antenna to replace the suction cup mounted ADS-B Out antenna, 2) the FAA TSO approved GPS puck (read high $$), and 3) a software patch that effectively sets a bit in the transmission stream to say it is a TSO approved unit. I'll bet their web site gets updated soon to reflect meeting the TSO standard.

    With the FAA's correction to the rulemaking, if the unit itself meets the performance standard, it should be good to go for under $1000 for their ADS-B out only unit or <$1500 for an all in one unit.

    Many manufacturers produce avionics for the E-AB and LSA markets and never bother to get a TSO. MicroAir, X-com, and Dynon are the first to come to mind.

    Cub Builder
    Last edited by cub builder; 02-12-2015 at 08:29 AM.

  9. #9

    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Tehachapi, CA
    Posts
    219
    Quote Originally Posted by cub builder View Post
    Skyguard's web site says they will come out with a TSO kit once the TSO rules are complete. They don't claim to meet the TSO performance standard.
    Yeah, they do. If you read their blog, they've submitted to the FAA twice now - the 2nd time in January. If they didn't believe that they met the standard, they wouldn't have submitted, because the paperwork is a PITA.

    Quote Originally Posted by cub builder View Post
    However, I believe their equipment does meet the performance standard. Their TSO kit was to contain 1) an external mount antenna to replace the suction cup mounted ADS-B Out antenna, 2) the FAA TSO approved GPS puck (read high $$), and 3) a software patch that effectively sets a bit in the transmission stream to say it is a TSO approved unit. I'll bet their web site gets updated soon to reflect meeting the TSO standard.
    Soon is relative :-). They say that it's in the FAA's hands now, and they expect a 2nd round of request for more info, so I'd bet it's many months before approval.

    Quote Originally Posted by cub builder View Post
    With the FAA's correction to the rulemaking, if the unit itself meets the performance standard, it should be good to go for under $1000 for their ADS-B out only unit or <$1500 for an all in one unit.
    I certainly hope you're correct.

  10. #10

    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Alabama
    Posts
    2,236
    With the FAA's correction to the rulemaking, if the unit itself meets the performance standard, it should be good to go for under $1000 for their ADS-B out only unit or <$1500 for an all in one unit.
    And this is the key to all TSO/non-TSO'd equipment.

    What's the difference between a TSO and a non-TSO'd vertical card compass? Two hundred dollars (or more). They both work the same, give the same results, and are both accurate in the exact same ways. But only one of them is legal to install into certified aircraft, which must have all certified parts in them in order to stay certified.

    If there's a production line that produces the same product in the same way for the same company, why do those in the TSO bin at the end of it cost more? To cover the certification costs and in a little bit because they can. If one owns a C172 it doesn't matter if they're giving away non-TSO ADSB units with hats at AirVenture, he can't install it on his aircraft. He's going to have to pay whatever the market has agreed to price TSO'd ADSB units at.

    Since us homebuilders are a largely optional market for stuff, they put a certain percentage of production at a reduced price out for us (and some companies forgo certification entirely in order to speed up production process times). Skyguard is doing this. They could hold up production and sales as they await certification or they can sell now as non-TSO while their sample products wind through the government process.

    Either way the FAA doesn't care. If one has a functioning ADSB-out unit that's been properly installed and working they won't know it's not non-TSO'd and will be pleased that it's there.
    The opinions and statements of this poster are largely based on facts and portray a possible version of the actual events.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •