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Thread: Known Proposals for Advanced and Unlimited Published by CIVA

  1. #1

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    Known Proposals for Advanced and Unlimited Published by CIVA

    The CIVA Known proposals for Advanced and Unlimited (Power and Glider) were sent to delegates yesterday and will be voted on at CIVA's plenary meeting in Wroclaw, Poland on 8-9 November. I welcome comments on these proposals before my departure for Europe on the 4th of November.

    There is a news article on the IAC website on this subject:

    https://www.iac.org/news/2014-10-05-...proposals-2015

    The sequences are available for download here as well.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  2. #2

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    209 views as of today. Only one comment to me so far.

    Mike

  3. #3

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    Hey Mike sorry for delay in response ......"A"...is my choice & is the best of the proposals for keeping the little guy [4cly small winged] in the fight in my opinion.
    All are flyable in my little mount & I think I could practice away the disadvantages that any of the proposals present, But I believe proposal "A" provides the best option of keeping the flight about pilot performance & not plane performance.

    I am surprised to see that a neg-snap made it into a proposal at all "B"....and figure 1 in proposal "F" is a sleeper for a lot of us .

    Take care
    Tony

  4. #4

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    Tony,

    Good call on the Known. I have been receiving copies of the evaluations by the CIVA Working Group on these proposals and it so happens that two former World Champions agree with you on sequence "A" in Advanced. It was their first choice.

    While I am still waiting to hear from members of the US Advanced Aerobatic Team (Craig Gifford and Nikolay Timofeev have weighed in), I predict we will cast the USA vote for "A".

    Additional input welcome!!

    Mike

  5. #5

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    I'd be OK with Advanced proposal 'A'.

    -Martin

  6. #6
    RetroAcro's Avatar
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    Just now had time to review and comment. I guess I shouldn't cast my final "vote" (FWIW) until I've flown a few of these, but right now I'd choose Advanced sequences A, C, and F as decent Known candidates (C or F initial preference). Other comments for now until I can fly -

    "A" - There are a couple significant altitude loser figures for slow-rolling stock Pitts types - the full roll down in Fig. 2, and the 1.5 roll on the 45 down in Fig. 3. A fair amount of altitude will be needed getting sufficient speed to fly Fig. 6 round over the top in slower rolling stock Pitts types. This sequence is fairly simple, containing the same 270 roller as was in the '14 Known, as well as a 3/4 vertical snap down, also in the '14 Known.

    "B" - No comment, as I understand IAC will vote against anything with a negative snap. I do not mind the idea of Advanced having a simple 1-rotation neg. snap on a level line as this sequence has.

    "C" - Has some good challenge, and some new figures compared to the '14 Known (outside/in roller, 1-1/2 snap, 1/2 snap 45 down), has good flow, and seems to have no energy issues for stock Pitts types.

    "D" - Fig. 2 will be hard to get good energy for, and a possible energy issue into Fig. 7 on a hot day for stock Pitts types.

    "E" - Speed into Fig. 2 for a decent snap will be a challenge, and Fig. 7 (especially w/ roll on top) will be without question impossible to remotely score well in stock Pitts types due to energy requirements. Fig. 7 is the worst possible figure to put in a Known when it comes to performance disparities between the bipes and 6-cylinder carbon mono-ships.

    "F" - Looks OK to me, and (without flying it), it doesn't seem to me Fig. 1 is any more of a sleeper than an inverted spin into a 3/4 loop up with the hard pull needed for a snap on top. Fig. 3 may be hard to fly a round 5/8 radius.

    "G" - Fig. 2, and speed into Fig. 5 are significant altitude losers - again for slow rolling stock Pitts bipes.

    "H" - Figures 3 and 4 will take up an excessive amount of the X-axis for slow rolling Pitts types due to the large numbers of rolls in the downwind lines. May be very hard to keep in the box with significant wind down the X.

    "I" - Fig. 4 is a big altitude loser for slow rolling Pitts', and this sequence will require pushes that are harder than I'd like to see in an Advanced Known, where the "legal" G-limit is -3G for most Pitts'.

    Eric Sandifer
    Last edited by RetroAcro; 10-19-2014 at 11:19 PM.

  7. #7

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    Great exposition on the sequence's Eric....I hope the "powers that be" give the same consideration to the performance differences of the mount's that you have!

    Take care
    Tony

  8. #8
    A bit late to the thread, but a sloppy pass at Advanced sequence A can be seen in flight at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-l-...lMC5ND-Nv5pylw

  9. #9
    RetroAcro's Avatar
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    Yeah, I hate those Advanced sequences that leave me ending up in the stratosphere. :-) I haven't flown this 'A' sequence yet, but I expect altitude issues getting all those rolls on the downlines done in the Pitts.

  10. #10

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    A bit late to the thread, but a sloppy pass at Advanced sequence A can be seen in flight at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-l-...lMC5ND-Nv5pylw
    Craig Gifford

    Hey Craig, Like the flying....Thanks for posting video of the "A proposal"....I have followed your blog the last couple of times at AWAC & have truly enjoyed the posts. I would love to have you join in the discussion on this forum under the thread "Unfair" in this same section.
    It would be great to have someone who's been playing in the advanced category in an unlimited machine for years to give their perspective on the issue.
    Look forward to your posting.

    Take care
    Tony
    Last edited by flyrite; 11-05-2014 at 07:10 PM.

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