SPORT AVIATION Mistake

[Bill Greenwood]

In the July 2014 there is an article on the designer of RANS aircraft. The problem is the photos on p.59 which show him leaning over a prop and p. 63 where as a young man he is sitting on the prop/spinner.

Props are danger zones, and not something to stick your hands and head into their arc.
And our EAA magazine, SPORT AVIATION, should know better than this.

When I see photos like that, it seems to me just like someone who is a hunter posing with a gun pointed at their head. It is a bad safety example to set, even worse because you can see where a gun is pointed, but a spinning prop becomes invisible.
I am sure this man is an excellent and experienced pilot, but everyone seeing the photos may not be, and may be careless around props.

I think we should regard props like a man standing there with a sharp sword and who may start swinging it at any time.

[1600vw]

I believe in both pics the engine is off, no one in the cockpit. I would think the mags are off and the fuel not only shut off but in the Max lean position.

The other day I did some work on my airplane. Changed the oil and filter, removed and cleaned the air filter. All within the arc of the prop. I was not removing the prop to do this. I also have stood in front of, over and around my prop when the airplane is in the hangar. I do not believe this is a dangerous practice.

Now if on page 59 he was trying to hand prop. that would be a concern but I do not believe he is doing this.

Mountain from a mole hill....

Tony
P.S. Bill I like reading your stuff but believe you might be a little off here. But please keep up the good articles. I get bored easy..lol Thanks for all you contribute..

[rwanttaja]

I believe in both pics the engine is off, no one in the cockpit. I would think the mags are off and the fuel not only shut off but in the Max lean position.

The other day I did some work on my airplane. Changed the oil and filter, removed and cleaned the air filter. All within the arc of the prop. I was not removing the prop to do this. I also have stood in front of, over and around my prop when the airplane is in the hangar. I do not believe this is a dangerous practice.

Now if on page 59 he was trying to hand prop. that would be a concern but I do not believe he is doing this.

Gotta agree with Bill, here.

One should stay out of the prop arc unless there's a good reason to be within it. There's little risk, normally, but there's still SOME risk. Remember, our magneto switches work by grounding the mag; if the switch fails, the magneto is hot.

Just yesterday, a friend told me a story of when he was storing his Piper Pacer with a Thorp T-18 under it. The T-18's prop was sticking too close to the bottom of the Pacer's wing, so he started moving the T-18's prop for a bit more clearance. WHANG! The prop had apparently been right on the edge of the compression stroke because it kicked around...and sliced through the fabric of the Pacer's wing.

It didn't actually start, but had his head been in the arc, he might have picked up a pretty back knock.

I've had folks want to take pictures of me/themselves holding the prop of my airplane, and I always refuse and tell them why. ISTR an FAA safety poster, at one time, warning against the practice as well.

Stay clear of the arc, folks.

Ron Wanttaja

[Bill Greenwood]

Tony, I don't know if you ever handle guns or hunt, but if so would you consider it ok, just fine if someone pointed a gun at you and said "no problem, it's not loaded"? If you were out hunting with a group would you mind it someone was waving a gun around so that it was pointed at other people, but again "no problem it's not loaded"? Is it okay it the neighbor kids have a gun and point it at your family, and by the way, "its not loaded"?
How about if a cop stops you for a traffic ticket and points his gun at you, would you feel good, after all he is not firing, yet.

We form good and bad habits. If we treat props with contemp and not respect, then one day when they are turning we may walk or reach into the arc. It happened to a very experiences a & p at BJC, Jeffco, airport years ago who got out of the cabin of a running MU 2 he was working on and ducked under the wing and right into the prop arc.
Same to an experienced CFI at OFK, Norfolk, Neb years ago with a C150. Our first fatality with Young Eagles program was someone who walked up to a plane and was hit by a prop.
We set examples for others who may be new pilots or just on lookers. Showing the wrong way to do it, especially in our feature magazine is a bad practice. You can be just as cool a designer or pilot while standing next to the cockpit or wing, not the prop.

And yes, I am pretty old fashonioned and I want to emphasize safety on the easy things like staying out of the prop arc, before a molehill becomes a mountain.

Obviously, you might have to cross the prop arc to change an air filter, but I would say to myself , this is out of the ordinary, don't do this normally. Idon't see any reason to lean on a prop to drain the oil. Even if moving the prop like for a compression test, I would keep most of my body clear of the arc.

As for as you not believing that this is dangerous, you can believe anything you want. There are some folks who like to handle poisonous snakes.

I hand prop my J3 Cub, but I am not careless about the prop, don't lean on it for photos and I tie the tail and chock it when starting.

[1600vw]

Tony, I don't know if you ever handle guns or hunt, but if so would you consider it ok, just fine if someone pointed a gun at you and said "no problem, it's not loaded"? If you were out hunting with a group would you mind it someone was waving a gun around so that it was pointed at other people, but again "no problem it's not loaded"? Is it okay it the neighbor kids have a gun and point it at your family, and by the way, "its not loaded"?
How about if a cop stops you for a traffic ticket and points his gun at you, would you feel good, after all he is not firing, yet.

We form good and bad habits. If we treat props with contemp and not respect, then one day when they are turning we may walk or reach into the arc. It happened to a very experiences a & p at BJC, Jeffco, airport years ago who got out of the cabin of a running MU 2 he was working on and ducked under the wing and right into the prop arc.
Same to an experienced CFI at OFK, Norfolk, Neb years ago with a C150. Our first fatality with Young Eagles program was someone who walked up to a plane and was hit by a prop.
We set examples for others who may be new pilots or just on lookers. Showing the wrong way to do it, especially in our feature magazine is a bad practice. You can be just as cool a designer or pilot while standing next to the cockpit or wing, not the prop.

And yes, I am pretty old fashonioned and I want to emphasize safety on the easy things like staying out of the prop arc, before a molehill becomes a mountain.

Obviously, you might have to cross the prop arc to change an air filter, but I would say to myself , this is out of the ordinary, don't do this normally. Idon't see any reason to lean on a prop to drain the oil. Even if moving the prop like for a compression test, I would keep most of my body clear of the arc.

As for as you not believing that this is dangerous, you can believe anything you want. There are some folks who like to handle poisonous snakes.

I hand prop my J3 Cub, but I am not careless about the prop, don't lean on it for photos and I tie the tail and chock it when starting.

If I just had said gun in my hands, took all ammo from it and broke it down if it was a shot gun you bet. Point that gun at me all you want. Just like when I kill my engine. I NEVER shut the engine off but make it stop running by shutting off the fuel flow. I also pull the lean knob. Doing all this I can light my mag and the engine will never start. The fuel is off and the carb set to max lean.

I thought everyone had these practices. If you don't you are a danger to those who may come into contact with your airplane. NEVER shut down an engine using the mag...Never..Ever....Make the engine quit and it will not run. Turn that prop all you want it will not start.

This works on my VW, I would think this would work on any engine.

How I fly.

Tony

[1600vw]

I come around my hangar and my flying buddy put his car right in front of my taxi way. I have no brakes on my airplane. As I come up I hit the off switch and nothing. She just keeps on running. I start yelling I can't stop.

My buddy runs over and tries to grab my wing. I am already on the choke and as he grabs the wing the engine dies. I come within inches of a prop strike on the hood of his car.

I learned a very good lesson that day and never ever kill my engine using the mag. It gets starved for fuel by shutting off flow and the mixture goes lean. Then the mag goes cold. I could be flying with a hot mag all the time and never know it. I do not use the kill switch but for a safety shut off after the engine has stopped running. How I know my switch works, I check it, the wiring and switch once a year.

Tony

[dusterpilot]

I shuddered when I saw those pics and was shocked they made it through the edit and review process. I'm amazed it took this long for someone to comment on them. Definitely NOT what should be shown in a magazine that promotes aviation safety. Bad things rarely happen with props, but when they do, they can be deadly.

[Bill Greenwood]

Tony, you write, "Never shut down the engine using the mag". That sounds good,but a J3 Cub or Champ or similar which does not have any mixture control to shut down the engine, and killing it by turning off the fuel and waiting for it too die leaves the carb empty which is not considered good for the carb. So the mags are the standard shut off.

But you are only getting the minor point of what I am trying to say. Obviously an engine could fire if mags are hot etc, when the prop is touched or turned.
But more importantly and more dangerously if someone gets careless around prop arcs they can be careless when the engine is running and be hit.

One of the men here used to be a deck hand on a carrier in the navy and they were taught never to go in a prop arc, running or not, same as not getting in front of a jet engine intake.

[MEdwards]

Bill, is it OK if I clean the bugs off the nose of my airplane? Or do I have to wait until the prop is removed to do that?

[1600vw]

Please explain how leaving the carb empty is hard on it? On my new to me airplane it's been setting now going on 6 months. We never drained the carb and I am worried about this. Many times I have let fuel set in a carb and that ruins the carb or justifies taking it apart and cleaning.

But removing the fuel. That always resulted in an engine that would start even after setting a year or more.

Tony