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Thread: Why is there a Tower at Oshkosh?

  1. #11
    Aaron Novak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Berson View Post
    My home airport is Jefferson County International (0S9). No radio is required here. So we have a lot of vintage, antique, sport and ultralight traffic. The museum here doesn't use radios in any of their older aircraft, including trainers.

    I honestly can't understand why you feel it is no problem that these vintage, antique, sport and ultralight aircraft don't have access to the airport at Oshkosh, year round.
    If they can allow no radio access during busy Airventure, why not a similar procedure for year round?
    Sure, a bit of common sense is needed, such as keeping the sport planes separated (much as they mandate in the NOTAM). Just keep the same procedure all year.

    Arlington has multiple intersecting runways with extra parallel grass strips for airplanes and another strip just for gliders.
    Pilots seem to manage without a tower.
    ?????

    Bill,
    There are antiques and light sport here year round for sure. Not sure where you are getting your information from. Ultralights we don't see much of in the area at any field.

  2. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan Harger View Post
    Sir,

    All of those aircarft have access to KOSH year round. Why do you think otherwise?
    It is true that many pilots prefer to seek out other, turf fields in the area for their flight ops... but they are very welcome at KOSH.
    It's not the lack of grass airstrip, but that is an issue. I am talking about no radio sport planes. Some pilots just don't want to equip for a radio because the cockpit is just too noisy or they can't hear well or no electric system or they just almost never use a radio so not current on the procedure. Pilots that fly for fun don't fly into tower fields and choose other strips, as you said.
    How much trouble is operating at KOSH year round with no radio? Is that possible?

  3. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Berson View Post
    Why do they need a tower?
    Because it meets the requirements for a control tower airport based on operations count and/or enplaned passengers. Once it meets the criteria, it's not an option.

    BTW, you can obtain the annual operation counts from APO-110 with a FOIA request.

  4. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by martymayes View Post
    Because it meets the requirements for a control tower airport based on operations count and/or enplaned passengers. Once it meets the criteria, it's not an option.

    BTW, you can obtain the annual operation counts from APO-110 with a FOIA request.
    Airnav shows 189 operations per day at KOSH. (Probably outdated)

    So it could be number of passengers rather than the number of commercial flights?
    Do you know how many passengers is required? And operations count needed?
    Last edited by Bill Berson; 07-24-2014 at 06:50 PM.

  5. #15

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    Has to be revenue passengers.
    The Airnav data could be something supplied by the FBO, not necessarily credible.

    The FAA publishes threshold values for establishing airspace and services and I think for most designations there is a biennial review required. I'll look it up when I get home.
    Last edited by martymayes; 07-24-2014 at 06:58 PM.

  6. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron Novak View Post
    ?????

    Bill,
    There are antiques and light sport here year round for sure. Not sure where you are getting your information from. Ultralights we don't see much of in the area at any field.
    There are 60 ultralights and 45 gliders based at Arlington (AWO) which is without class D airspace.
    KOSH has no ultralights and no gliders because of the class D airspace, is my assertion.

    Why can't this be changed to allow these operations at KOSH (in a restricted area)?
    Not for me personally. I am just an advocate for Sport Aviation nationwide.

  7. #17

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    Q: Why is there a Tower at Oshkosh?

    A: The controllers kept falling off of the step ladders.
    The opinions and statements of this poster are largely based on facts and portray a possible version of the actual events.

  8. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron Novak View Post
    ?????

    Bill,
    There are antiques and light sport here year round for sure. Not sure where you are getting your information from. Ultralights we don't see much of in the area at any field.
    Aaron,
    I recently learned that the so called "Ultralight and LightSport" runway at Oshkosh is only open during the week of Airventure*. During Airventure week, the NOTAM provides a waiver to FAR103.17 and allows for this temporary grass strip with no radio contact with the Tower.

    So the appearance to someone visiting Airventure is that ultralight and Light Sport activity is allowed and popular year round at Oshkosh, but the reality is that there is no ultralight activity at that field other than Airventure week. The same goes for Pioneer Airport, I think, which is only open a few days per year.
    So my problem is really with the restrictions of class D airspace because it prevents ultralight and basic Sport Pilot activity over a wide area, typically near populated areas. Oshkosh is just one example.
    Yes, antiques or any LSA can install a radio to operate at KOSH. But the LSA rule was created to allow basic navigation without a radio. As far as I know, no LSA are based at KOSH without a radio. So the LSA rule isn't working as intended in this case. If private aviation is to be saved, close inspection of entry bottlenecks is desired, in my opinion.
    Thanks for your interest. I hope to volunteer at the ultralight field in a few days.
    Have fun at Airventure.

    * if incorrect, please advise

  9. #19
    Sam Buchanan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Berson View Post
    But the LSA rule was created to allow basic navigation without a radio.

    * if incorrect, please advise
    I think this premise is incorrect. "Basic navigation without a radio" has always been allowed under the current FARs for any pilot. We were trained in how to use pilotage when we were pursuing the private pilot license.

    There are several reasons why the Sport Pilot certificate was initiated, but the above reason was not one of them.
    Last edited by Sam Buchanan; 07-25-2014 at 09:03 AM.
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  10. #20

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    "an FOIA request"

    The information for all airports with control towers is on the FAA web site as the Air Traffic Activity System.

    The report for OSH, year 2013, does not include AirVenture, but shows that the ATCT handled 89,474 total operations.

    Itinerant
    45,547 general aviation
    1,774 air taxi
    465 military

    Local
    41,385 civil
    303 military

    The most recent FAA policy statement, from the negotiations over shutting down contract towers, was that an airport qualified for a control tower when there were 150,000 operations per year. This number is actually modified by "economic impact" factors. I will guess that EAA and AirVenture qualify as "economic impact" for the purposes of maintaining a full time tower presence.

    If your airport has a control tower, you can look yourself up on the FAA web site and see what your official activity level is.

    Best of luck,

    Wes
    N78PS

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