Why I'm against bringing the Thunderbirds

[FlyingRon]

I'm not convinced it will be a smaller area. Frankly once you get 30 feet back from the burn line it's pretty sparse. I park on the far side of the road and there's never anybody there during the airshows.

While an F16 or a Concorde or whatever may be interseting or mundane to us, believe me it's a draw to the average crowd. My wife runs a large event at the Air and Space Museum. In past years I've put 250 kids in and out of my Navion as one of the exhibit aircraft. This year, United brought a 777 to the event and everybody made a beeline to that. The gate counts were about the same, but I only handed out about 150 cards rather than 250.

[scuba72]

While the Thunderbirds will draw the attention of the general public (as in non aviation people) and I'm sure several EAA members, I could care less. If the EAA is looking for revenue, So be it. For me I will wonder the less crowded grounds while every one is watching them perform. Sure I'll look up every once in a while to see whats going on, but If I see a particular thing I'm interested in it will draw my attention more than the airshow.

On a side note, I just read on the website the news about Friday night at Theater in the woods. Might be fun to go to, but there is some inaccuracy in the post.

"The team has always used combat-capable fighters for its performances."

That quote from the news is wrong. From 1974 to 1983 they flew the T-38 Talon which is a trainer, not a combat capable fighter. It was a trainer..If you read the news it sounds like they switched from the F-4 to the F-16.

Dave in Missouri

[rleffler]

While the Thunderbirds will draw the attention of the general public (as in non aviation people) and I'm sure several EAA members, I could care less. If the EAA is looking for revenue, So be it. For me I will wonder the less crowded grounds while every one is watching them perform. Sure I'll look up every once in a while to see whats going on, but If I see a particular thing I'm interested in it will draw my attention more than the airshow.

On a side note, I just read on the website the news about Friday night at Theater in the woods. Might be fun to go to, but there is some inaccuracy in the post.

"The team has always used combat-capable fighters for its performances."

That quote from the news is wrong. From 1974 to 1983 they flew the T-38 Talon which is a trainer, not a combat capable fighter. It was a trainer..If you read the news it sounds like they switched from the F-4 to the F-16.

Dave in Missouri

I'm not sure that quote is inaccurate. What does it take to convert a T-38 to a F-5? Wouldn't that mean it's combat capable? Agreed, that the US didn't use the F-5, but many other countries did.

[scuba72]

I'm not sure that quote is inaccurate. What does it take to convert a T-38 to a F-5? Wouldn't that mean it's combat capable? Agreed, that the US didn't use the F-5, but many other countries did.

While the T-38 and the F-5 were developed at the same time and I believe the same basic airframe, the F-5 is bigger. 1 foot longer, 16 sq ft more wing area and about 1 foot taller. While the airplanes look similar and do share a lot of the same components, they are totally different machines. I'm pretty sure it would be near impossible to convert a T-38 into an F-5.

I personally think the T-38 and the F-5 are two of the nicest looking airplanes ever built. Sleek, fast and maneuverable. When the T-Birds flew them I think they put on better shows. I have seen them perform with the F-100 (Okay I'm showing my age), the F-4, the T-38 and the F-16. I think the T-38 years were their best.

[avinuts]

Here is my two cents worth, my oppinion on the subject and what I think about the Thunderbird performance. Change is inevitable, sometimes good and sometimes not-so-good. One thing that I have learned over the years about events is "that they either get bigger or they get smaller, but never stay the same". I have many good organizations with their "purist" members with the attitude that if it was good enough for me then it should be good enough for everyone else. Unfortunately as those "purist" members get old and "go west", there isn't anyone groomed to replace them because the fundamental ideas are no longer as popular as they one were. We must all be vigilant to declining membership. I have attended EAA Oshkosh since 1974. I have seen changes, oh yes, many changes. The crowd line has been moved. The Thunderbirds-type performance is not new. I have seen the Canadian Jet team, the French Jet team and the Italian Jet team perform in Oshkosh. The organization was set up with different divisions to accomodate different people and their particular likes. Perhaps something for everyone, so to speak. The best way to keep someone in attendance is to accomodate the family. Make it a family outing/vacation/holiday. Hence the theater in the woods, the outdoor movie theater, teen dances and the concerts. We all don't like the same things, EAA Oshkosh is about aviation and the people who have similar interests. I fly, I don't own an airplane, I don't ever plan to build one, but I certainly respect those people who do. Paul Poberezny flew many different types of aircraft and was proud of them all. One of his proudest moments was when the Astronauts were at Oskosh to speak. How do I know this, he made a point of being accessable to the membership and said so. Personally, I like seeing Warbirds, WW II, Korean War, VietNam War and modern Military aircraft just as much as seeing a breezy, a Cessna 140, a R-22 or the Goodyear blimp. If moving your chair for the Thunderbirds aerobatic demonstration box is the problem, park farther back earlier in the day. If they are to noisey, wear earplugs, if you are able to plan a 5-10 hour flight to Oshkosh, I'm sure you can plan to be away from your tied down aircraft for a few hours on a couple of days. You are "special", in aviation, we are all special. It is time that we act as mentors and not dictators to the public. We need the support! The show, the event, the convention, the gathering starts in four days. Enjoy it! I will with ALL that it has to offer for everyone there. I'm pumped up and ready, again!

[flybuddy]

Just adding a couple of thoughts:
1) BA and T-Birds have not been consistent with their practice times at all at Sun-N-Fun. Wonder how that will work at Oshkosh with resi and business closings as well as show lines?
2) I understand the revenue need but why not run them at another time other than Airventure to attract the locals. They DO draw good crowds at conventional airshows.
3) If you want to run them at Airventure, how about the weekend BEFORE the convention.

[Ylinen]

My first time to Air Venture was in 2005. Then we saw the Blue Angels. The performance box was no different. Clearly the FAA has learned much since some airshow disasters. I think the comments about a Convention vs the BIG show are useful. Raising money (Mostly from EAA members at this show needs to be reviewed). I know there are many chapter leadership meetings and strategy planning that happens this week that I am not involved in.

For me, I want to see EAA HQ develop better Advocacy strategies. I think we need to work to get us all working at all levels of government to make Small Aircraft GA much more free of oversight and regulation and drive lower costs. EAA can set the standard as Certified Aircraft and AOPA are harder and already have the FAA in on their backs.

As members, we need to voice our desires. Elect members as Directors that have our views and hold them accountable. Sounds like voters and the Government.

[BillL]

This yearly event is a magic thing - it is a lot of different things to a lot of different people with widely different reasons for being there. The airshow is just a part of that. Basically, the homebuilt, amateur build industry is good for America. In building my RV7 I have spent more money on purely American made parts and services that another facet of my life, including my home. It is the core of what EAA is all about, even if Kitplanes has more articles actual building and amateur built planes each month. As a newbie, it was looking at kit offerings, forums on tech stuff, then it was selecting the kit, then it was talking and looking at what features and components would be on the plane, then it was looking at finished planes to see how they did things, and now it is getting to know the builders personally and saying hello to the suppliers who have helped me so much. Hopefully next year, it will be experiencing the joy of arriving in the airplane I built and hoisting beverages with other new fellow owners. This is a long journey ( 12 years now) and the event must cater to each segment as they are all there at one time each year. If the T-Birds will allow some other Dad to bring his son along while his journey progresses - then Bravo - it is meeting that segments' goal. I am too old to drool over an F16 seat, and will be very happy to finish my bird and pull 4g's at a lot slower speed. That does not mean it is not a good thing for Airventure. The Board must realize the reality of this journey and not miss a single group as they progress over the years. Disintegration of a link in that chain will damage the event, including T Birds. Personally, I am more excited with a Blue Angles show right down on the deck, or the AeroDynamic RV team with their art in motion, but that is just me personally.

[L16 Pilot]

I was just packing up when the TB made their arrival. They did as pretty good job of beating up the field but then I'm an old air force guy from F102 days although not a pilot at that time.

[orvie6]

Maybe I am missing something, but looking at the Primary web cams, I can not find the Thunderbirds!!! Where are they parked?