What happened to Ultralights?

[Glocknug]

Growing up, i always had an interest in flying. I was able to obtain my private pilots license, but was always interested in ultralights. I was never flying to travel, it was always for fun. I remember seeing ultralights flying above me, and thinking that was what i wanted to do. There is something appealing about flying for recreation, with the wind in your face.

The ultralights I used to see have disappeared. I have read articles about sport flying destroying the ultralight sport.

Is this because they took away ultralight training? I also read that they are not really producing new ultralights. Is this true?

I looked up my local eaa chapter (511) and there hasent been activity since 2009. I called every airport i can think of to get info on ultralight flying. They all said they had to kick em out after 9/11 for insurance purposes.

Is my dream of flying ultralights doomed?

[Bill Berson]

What killed the ultralight industry was the ending of the two seat trainer exemption. Pilots liked the extra power and the higher performance and there was lots of engine options.

You can still buy or build a single seat ultralight.
I have not heard of anyone kicked out because of insurance. Look around for another airfield. My local airport doesn't require insurance.
Another option is to trailer and store at home.

[1600vw]

The insurance thing is a bogus excuse. The USUA offers insurance for ultralights. But who needs insrurance when you are not flying over homes or people. Its a bogus excuse.

Look at the Legal eagle. Its a good ultralight and you do not need a two stroke to operate it or for it to fly.

For training you will not find any. The best you can do is ind someone with a two seat quicksilver or something like it and have them show you what you need to fly. That will be tough.

No matter what anyone tells you this is a product of HLS. Back in the days of Sport Pilot talk radio, Roy had a man on there from the FAA. At that time HLS, wanted a shoulder launch system to bring down ultralights. They decided the best approach, just kill the idea of ultralights all together.

Sure you can fly one, just don't ask for training. Our government does this when they do not want its citizens to do a certain thing. They say , yes you can do it, but trying to do such and such to get to the point of doing such and such will be illegal. I could give a lot of examples of this but why.

Its not just your dream of flying that is doomed. Its all General Aviation away from the big iron that is doomed. HLS would prefer us all to walk and then they will give you a ticket for walking, it will be a tax thing I am sure.

I have looked at my EAA chapters for help with my EAB. I found none so do not be surprised when you find no help with an ultralight dream.

Now we will hear from those who are lucky enough to have an active EAA club that does something more then sell something to eat and just how bogus this is. If you put a number to it, I bet less then 5% of the EAA clubs do something besides sell food out of all the hundreds if not thousands of EAA clubs out in the world.

Yes they are producing new ultralights. the question is..are they selling any. I doubt they are selling much and we have uncle Sam to thank along with the members of the FAA. That means we have no one to blame but ourselves.

Tony

[magpie@hwy2.com]

I have a Kasperwing that I refurbished and it's a legal Part 103 machine. We have an active group and though we are scattered across the country we stay in contact on the Kasperwing group at yahoo. I live in a sparsely populated area and you either grab your bootstraps and make do or you don't go flying not matter what you fly.

The Ultralight movement is nothing like the glory days of the early 80's but FAR Part 103 is still on the books and folks like me are flying under the rules. It's a smaller movement but plenty of us are enjoying the niche.

Getting one of these ready to go, again, is a ton of labor and requires standard A&P type knowledge to do safely. Once they are setup they are fragile an need to be kept inside. Frankly they are a bit impractical and given the work you might as well mess with regular airplane or a LSA. You do it despite it being impractical.

It sure is fun hanging out at 30-35mph trying to catch up to a seagull.

Mostly, the ultralight movement is fragmented into a bunch of type groups with few or no local "clubs". Expect a somewhat solo experience.

Your not doomed, you just need to revise your expectations.

John

[FlyingRon]

I doubt HLS had much to do with it. Nothing changed in the REGS after 9/11. Besides, even if they abolished part 103, it wouldn't change the security threat. You can still by "ultralight type" aircraft as light sports and do the same things with them. Do you think that the fact that they need a pilot's license to fly one will stop a terrorist. Do you think the guys on 9/11 bothered to get their 767 type ratings before they flew the planes into the WTC? As pointed out the "ruse" people were using to operate the fat ultralights was shutdown. That coupled with the medical-less sport pilot sort of took the wind out of the sails sort to speak.

[1600vw]

I doubt HLS had much to do with it. Nothing changed in the REGS after 9/11. Besides, even if they abolished part 103, it wouldn't change the security threat. You can still by "ultralight type" aircraft as light sports and do the same things with them. Do you think that the fact that they need a pilot's license to fly one will stop a terrorist. Do you think the guys on 9/11 bothered to get their 767 type ratings before they flew the planes into the WTC? As pointed out the "ruse" people were using to operate the fat ultralights was shutdown. That coupled with the medical-less sport pilot sort of took the wind out of the sails sort to speak.

A lot changed. or I should say nothing went forward, or nothing changed. Lets take away training for an auto and see how long before no one is driving. This is not about terrorist they care less how long they live. This is about the family man/woman wanting to do something and live longer then that evening.
From what you say transition training is bunk and who needs it. The way its written today even the FAA is saying this about Ultralights. Go training in something nothing like one then climb into a single seater. We will all watch eating our popcorn. It will be amusing.
But the FAA will tell you transition training is needed in everything but an...Ultralight...anyone can fly them..I want to see one of these none pilot FAA folks climb into one and fly it after flying an LSA of some sort. I will watch eating my popcorn.

Tony

[Bill Berson]

The LSA morphed into something that allows 200hp, $200,000 Carbon Cubs to be the industry leader.
The cost of SLSA certification is over $250,000 and growing. Not a big deal for Carbon Cub price range, but it limits affordable lighter designs that have the same costs as the big boys.
The LSA missed the mission because nothing affordable and absolutely no single seat has passed SLSA since 2004 (10 years).
I would like to start manufacturing a light single seat SLSA, but the cost to enter is too high. There is no affordable SLSA engines, for example.

[rawheels]

Is this because they took away ultralight training?

Yes, or more specifically that they eliminated the exemption for two-place (non-certified) vehicles used for training. The SLSA's required now are just too expensive for guys giving lessons on the side to people who are interested in inexpensive flying.

I also read that they are not really producing new ultralights. Is this true?

No, there are still ultralights being produced. The Aerolite 103 is consistently the best deal at Oshkosh for an aircraft, but there is no 2-place version to get training in.

They all said they had to kick em out after 9/11 for insurance purposes.

They had to kick out the people who were flying illegal/unregistered two-place or "fat" ultralights. We had a large ultralight community at our airport, but only one unit met the Part 103 requirements. All others registered as ELSA or are now lawn ornaments.

Is my dream of flying ultralights doomed?

It doesn't have to be. You can still fly Part 103, there just isn't going to be a large group of fellow ultralight pilots until the regs are changed (which won't happen unless the EAA or other large group starts to care about it).

If you just want the feel, you could always use your private's license as an LSA license and fly a M-Squared, Quicksilver, or similar "ultralight" type aircraft.

[magpie@hwy2.com]

I think the best bang for buck in aviation is the money you spend getting your Private Pilots license. By the time your done you have a solid foundation in VFR flight rules/navigation and the basics of flying. It will cost you less than a used ultralight. You'll never regret it.

After you get your license you transition into ultralights or twins to what ever else you think is fun. You do need transition training but it's far easier than learning to fly AND transitioning.

John

[knussear]

There is a new petition circulating out there to get more pilot input into the light sport rule changes. As it stands much of the discussion has been heavily influenced by manufacturing interests pushing SLSA requirements, which have put many of the instructors in our sport out of business. If you agree that we need change please consider supporting it!
https://www.change.org/petitions/faa...rt-rule-making