New here, looking for training

[1600vw]

I am not in Missouri or the Ozarks so I did not respond earlier. However the complaints about lack of UL instruction is getting to me. As a qualified instructor I am aviable to work with students and have traveled from WA to FL and ME to instruct stdents that are serious about learning. There are hurdles to overcome but this is doable if you are serious. Right now I am looking for serious students in the Seattle area to work with in GA aircraft. I expect to be in TN when the equipment is ready.

Send contact information and a discription of your needs and goals to GrantSmith@USA.com if you really want to fly safely. If you are looking to purchase an aircraft, I may be able to help with that also.

May I ask what airplanes you offer to train in?

I believe the lack of UL training is getting to a lot of folks. Like I said I know a few people almost killed from lack of this instruction in Ultralight's.

Tony

[jedi]

This list was started by Bryan982 and I would respond in much more detail to him so please excuse me if I am overly brief.

Eagle Six – Your question about an average number of hours is probably not the correct question for what you really want to know. Flight instruction typically relates hours to cost and tracks flying hours. The quick answer to your question “is there an average range of hours you train Ultralight pilots” is of course yes there is an average. Do I know what the answer is? No. Does it make a difference? No. It takes what it takes and a lot depends on how much the student learns without my instruction. I am there to guide the learning and keep the student from going into dangerous operations.

There are teachers and instructors. A teacher teaches what the teacher wants you to know. An instructor helps you learn what you want to learn.

As far as “average” goes, if you had a class with ten men and ten women what would be the average sex? Does this have any relation to the sex of the students? It does not matter what the average is even if it is a sex education class. (Including sex in the discussion is one way to increase student interest and attention.)

Now to answer your question; 10 hours of flight time, on average, is plenty of time to make a safe pilot. You could scare yourself enough to make yourself a safe pilot in less time but that would be more dangerous. It could take a year to get the 10 hours or it could take two days.

I am glad you are not interested in ultralight instruction. Keep flying what you know how to fly. What is that?

There is not an “introductory flight” in a single seat ultralight. The first flight is for real. It is called a solo flight. I am sure you remember your first solo flight after many hours of dual flight. The first solo flight without dual experience is less memorable because it is just one small step in the training program.

1600VW – “May I ask what airplanes you offer to train in?”

Answer -What ever you have in general. It does not need to be an airplane. I teach in gliders, paragliders (powered and unpowered), Powered Parachutes, land and sea, WSC land and sea, gyroplanes, and a few other things. No helicopters or balloons. Look up my certificate on the FAA web site for airplane qualifications.

You say "I know a few people almost killed from lack of this instruction in Ultralight's". I could say the same, but I don't. I would leave out the "almost" as those are the more significant ones. I would point out that they were not "almost killed from lack of this instruction" but the incident was caused by a lack of knowledge and respect for the equipment. The lack of instruction is responsable for the lack of UL pilots and sale of equipment. How many bicycles would be sold if no one knew how to ride a bike. How did you learn to ride your bike? Did your teacher have a bicycle built for two? Off topic - one of my sons learned to ride a bicycle with no training (I am not sure what that means).

[Eagle Six]

Eagle Six – Your question about an average number of hours is probably not the correct question for what you really want to know.

That's a bit presumptuous.....
My question was exactly and specifically what I asked, and therefore what I wanted to know.

from your experience and background, is there an average range of hours you train Ultralight pilots, whom have no flying experience?

The question was about you, not your students, or others flying ultralights.

There are teachers and instructors. A teacher teaches what the teacher wants you to know. An instructor helps you learn what you want to learn.

...well, depending on who is talking at the time, a teacher, or an instructor! But I would agree you are half correct. My students don't necessarily get what I want or what they think they want, but what they need to reach a specific goal. We don't know what we don't know! Students may be different even when the goal is the same.

I am glad you are not interested in ultralight instruction. Keep flying what you know how to fly. What is that?

Pretty much anything with wings and at least one fan.

There is not an “introductory flight” in a single seat ultralight. The first flight is for real. It is called a solo flight.

OK......apparently you made an assumption. If a friend pilot or instructor pilot took me up in a 2 seat ultralight, to introduce me to ultralights, I would most likely refer to this as an introductory flight. Your term may be different, that's fine.


Nevertheless, Thank You for your reply, for me, it sheds new light on ultralight flying and the ultralight community. Although you are one spokesperson, I hear you loud and clear!



Best Regards.......George

[brian982]

Sorry guys, I didn't mean to stir the pot. I guess UL training has become more controversial. I guess I will focus on finding enthusiasts in my area for now and work from there.

[jedi]

That's a bit presumptuous.....
My question was exactly and specifically what I asked, and therefore what I wanted to know.
The question was about you, not your students, or others flying ultralights.

My reply -Ok, I will stick with the 10 hours of flight time and add in 3 to 5 times that in ground time.

.......

OK......apparently you made an assumption. If a friend pilot or instructor pilot took me up in a 2 seat ultralight, to introduce me to ultralights, I would most likely refer to this as an introductory flight. Your term may be different, that's fine.
Nevertheless, Thank You for your reply, for me, it sheds new light on ultralight flying and the ultralight community. Although you are one spokesperson, I hear you loud and clear!

My Reply - There is no such thing as a "2 seat ultralight" and technecally there never was. Before Sport Pilot, there were two seat ultralight trainers. Those have all been converted to "experimental light sport" aircraft or are parts or lawn furnature. If your friend offers a ride in a "2 seat ultralight" and you are a certified pilot you may do well to declline the ride as this is a sure clue that either he or you are not up to date on the regulations. Read FAR Part 103. This is most likely the reason individuals like brian928 can not find the training they desire. It does not and can not exist. They do not know what it is that they are really looking for or how to search or ask for it. There is "pilot training" and you are aparently involved with some phases of that. If you are approached by a prospective student looking for ultralight training please offer him/her training in whatever aircraft you have and explain that you are not familar with ultralights and that he/she also refer to lists such as this to obtain type specific training. You may be an example of why future ultralight pilots are so discouraged. You are qualified to instruct but do not realize your privilages and limitations and turn the students away with no additional guidance. FYI You are cedrtified to teach in light sport aircraft although likely not qualified.

Best Regards.......George

George,I am glad to see that you are well qualified as a CP-ASMEL/I, S-6ES for what you are doing. What is a S-6ES?

[jedi]

Sorry guys, I didn't mean to stir the pot. I guess UL training has become more controversial. I guess I will focus on finding enthusiasts in my area for now and work from there.

Bryan, don't be sorry. GA needs to have these discussions. You can see some of the issues. Certified pilots think they are "real pilots" and do not recognize the "others" yet many think that they can "Fly like an eagle". I can recall when I did not understand ""Trike Pilots" and did not know what to think of them or how to respond to questions about them. Once I was enlightened it was like Wow is that what it is like! Stay with your dream and search for what you want. Let me know if I can help in any way.

[Eagle Six]

Sorry guys, I didn't mean to stir the pot. I guess UL training has become more controversial. I guess I will focus on finding enthusiasts in my area for now and work from there.

Sorry Brian,

My apology for taking this thread away from your intent of the OP, but at first I thought it would be of value to ask a simple question about hours. Apparently, it's not going that way.


Best Regards......George

[brian982]

Sorry Brian,

My apology for taking this thread away from your intent of the OP, but at first I thought it would be of value to ask a simple question about hours. Apparently, it's not going that way.


Best Regards......George

No worries, I appreciate everyone's responses. I've been out of the aviation loop for a bit (started taking lessons at 18 in 2001, but didn't manage to finish). Now, I have more money to pursue the hobby and have always liked the idea of ultralights. Anyway, I'm soaking up as much info. as I can!

[jedi]

Brian,

Can you elaborate on your concept of an ultralight. If you are thinking conventional aircraft both the Belite and the Aerolight 103 are fine examples of current prodcution and a complete airplane type ultralight that can be had for $15,500 to $17,000. If you are in the used market there are many older ultralight like aircraft that are now ELSA for less. I flew factory demos for the CGS Hawk for several years and think it is one of the better Ultralight/light sport airplanes. I can point you to my favorite that is available at a good price. It is Chuck's Army Hawk and has all the options and new fabric on the fuselage. I call it a poor mans super cub. Great performance and it will cary a load. I would deliver it to you and expect that you would be safe to fly it (with a tail wheel) in the 10 hours being discussed.

I guess Eagle Six is looking for the difference between solo and complete or safe or some other criteria. You do not solo until you are safe and when no training is required and no certificate available there is no imaginary or logical end to the training. (Private Pilot is not an end to the training, nor is sport pilot or instrument pilot) I am still learning to fly 55 years after soloing. I will stand by my irrelevent 10 hours given in the initiial answer to eagle sixes question. The old standard for solo was 8 hours but that has been replaced by 61.87 that is performance based not hours based.

If you are interested in more common ultralights such as hang gliders and paragliders I suggest we start a new thread.

[brian982]

Brian,

Can you elaborate on your concept of an ultralight. If you are thinking conventional aircraft both the Belite and the Aerolight 103 are fine examples of current prodcution and a complete airplane type ultralight that can be had for $15,500 to $17,000. If you are in the used market there are many older ultralight like aircraft that are now ELSA for less. I flew factory demos for the CGS Hawk for several years and think it is one of the better Ultralight/light sport airplanes. I can point you to my favorite that is available at a good price. It is Chuck's Army Hawk and has all the options and new fabric on the fuselage. I call it a poor mans super cub. Great performance and it will cary a load. I would deliver it to you and expect that you would be safe to fly it (with a tail wheel) in the 10 hours being discussed.

I guess Eagle Six is looking for the difference between solo and complete or safe or some other criteria. You do not solo until you are safe and when no training is required and no certificate available there is no imaginary or logical end to the training. (Private Pilot is not an end to the training, nor is sport pilot or instrument pilot) I am still learning to fly 55 years after soloing. I will stand by my irrelevent 10 hours given in the initiial answer to eagle sixes question. The old standard for solo was 8 hours but that has been replaced by 61.87 that is performance based not hours based.

If you are interested in more common ultralights such as hang gliders and paragliders I suggest we start a new thread.

Thanks for the information. I was actually looking at a CGS Hawk in Kansas City (http://kansascity.craigslist.org/for/4392249857.html) but it has been wrecked at some point so I've been a little leery. I like the conventional aircraft layout, and prefer tricycle gear but I wouldn't turn down the right tail dragger. I will have to look at the Army Hawk you mentioned. My first choice right now is this Fisher FP-606 on Barnstormers in Arkansas (http://www.barnstormers.com/classifi...ER+FP-606.html). If I don't go for a used one, I might just do a kit (I really like the Fisher planes). My father-in-law built his home from scratch and builds r/c planes from balsa, so he should be able to help put a kit plane together should I need help with it. I restore classic cars, but I don't work with wood much. Anyway, that's what I'm looking at, either a used conventional ultralight plane or a kit.