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Thread: Mass produced vtol aircraft to eliminate eventual global gridlock of ground vehicles

  1. #21

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    The initial Verticraft would not be mass produced and compete with the current aircraft market. Only when the demand for the aircraft becomes high enough can the aircraft be mass produced. Henry Ford had the same problem in 1914 with a greater problem of lack of roads to support the auto. Global gridlock of ground vehicles and the cost of roads and bridges to support them will accelerate the demand for the Verticraft.
    China recently had an 11 day traffic jam with the average commute in Beijing being more than 5 hrs. By the way you mention a flying car in your last sentence, it is not a flying car and cannot be driven on a road, the whole point is to eliminate the need for paved roads which destroy the environment.

  2. #22
    Chad Jensen's Avatar
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    Positive forward thinking leads to innovation...good thread Stan. Keep us posted!
    Chad Jensen
    EAA #755575

  3. #23

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    Thanks, Chad. If you run across any builders that think they have the capability to build the prototype and or investors that would be interested in participating in the PAV version. Please contact me.
    My most likely funding will come from DARPA for the UAV version but I would be looking for private investors to build the PAV manned version at the same time. I would like to travel by air as my primary means of transportation as soon as possible because I am reminded daily of the dangers on the ground in my 1.5 hour commute. I had fewer close calls flying F-4's off of aircraft carriers during the Vietnam era than I have now in my commute. Don't you wish you could just pull up to avoid the car that just pulled out in front of you?

  4. #24

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    This doesn't sound like something that has any fun for someone that enjoys flying. It sounds like being a Fedex package.
    I hope it never becomes necessary!

  5. #25

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    Bill, if it worked really well, fun would be the last thing it would be by design - and that's a good thing.

    The best flying car* would be as mundane as riding in a Ford Taurus. Get in, buckle up, enter the location, push the button. Text message or tweet or Facepage whatever the kids are doing today to pass the time until it's time to get out. The very last thing one would want for the average person is a lot of buttons, dials, gauges and stuff advertising how complex the machine was or any sudden movements to hint at the danger.

    Cars are like that. Idiot lights instead of gauges for everything but the most critical of items. Nobody really pays attention to the dangers of meeting another car on a two lane road at 50 mph, after all. Closing speed of 100 mph with three feet seperation.

    If I were to design the panel it would be a large GPS screen with ground speed, direction, and estimated time of arrival on a moving map. The gauges would be fuel and tachometer. The rest would be idiot gauges.

    Design question - would the vehicle have a ballistic parachute, and would it be automatically opened if the craft suddenly lost power or went topsy-turvy?

    * Flying car used in the marketing sense, not as in the driving airplane one. One would use it as one would a car - only it flys instead of drives. I'd market it that way, too. It's the "other" car, the one that goes by air rather than ground; sounds much more mundane and safe that way.
    Last edited by Frank Giger; 10-04-2011 at 04:46 AM.
    The opinions and statements of this poster are largely based on facts and portray a possible version of the actual events.

  6. #26

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    The "flying car" has been a dream since the very first airplane flew. Stan, I wish you nothing but the best on your endeavor, but you are not the first person to propose and attempt to fill this niche. The path to a flying car is fraught with problems.

    First, it must be able to integrate with the current infrastructure built around cars. Yes, ideally there is no need for roads, but those are still going to be there until your Verticraft outnumber cars. Your vehicle will need to be able to access gas stations, driveways, and garages in their current configuration. Using bio-fuel, etc. is a great for marketing, but realistically, you need to operate on whatever cars are operating on, otherwise there is a need for a whole new infrastructure to be built (another barrier to entry).

    Second, you have to deal with the regulations regarding a machine like this. I hate to say it, but the FAA is going to see this as either an airplane or a helicopter, which means they get to say how it gets built and certified. Look into how much effort it takes to get a new airplane certified to see how slow and expensive this process is. It also puts you into the realm of needing to use certified engines, hardware, etc. You are now looking at a supply chain in the aerospace world, not the automotive world. Also, your neighborhood auto shop won't be able to fix these things, an A&P will have to, and it will require an annual inspection. How many cars have that level of maintenance currently? Not very many. I'm afraid the average public would not be in favor of those type of regulations on their daily driver.

    Next, if the FAA is certifying it, then only people with pilots licenses can operate it. Like you said, most of the current commercial airlines are flying almost entirely by automation, but the FAA is still requiring pilots (with lots of hours and training, I might add) to push those buttons. I have yet to see anyone from the back of the plane step up and take over the flying duties on an airliner, so I am skeptical that the FAA will allow this in any sort of personal aircraft. So this takes you back to your "potential" market of 600,000 pilots. How many of them are actually current or even capable of flying? How many already own an airplane? Those may not be potential customers since they already have a vehicle that operates under the same rules as your Verticraft, and may very likely be cheaper.

    Finally, your Verticraft will have to compete with the already in-place and automated (at least from the perspective of the rider) public transportation system. This includes trains, buses, and commercial airliners. What if cities/municipalities decide to expand their public transportation infrastructure to alleviate the gridlock on the roads? Now, more people ride the train and less people are on the roads. Less gridlock, less need for a flying car. Texting, reading, and talking on the cell phone can happen on the train. Plus, no pilots license needed to ride the train.

    I know when a new idea is presented it is often met with skepticism and resistance, and you are free to take my comments as such. But you are not the first person to think of this idea, and everyone before has failed (the current exception is the Terrafugia whose history is still unfolding). Do an archive search of Sport Aviation to see all the articles written about the future of flying cars to see how long this has been a dream. I, for one, would love to hop into my car and "fly" to work or the store just like the Jetsons did, but it just doesn't seem to be a realistic form of transportation.

  7. #27

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    Hi John, I want to mention that the Verticraft is not a flying car but it makes them obsolete because they still need a runway and the whole point is to stay off of the highways and eliminate rush hour traffi if you want to live very long. It will not compete with public transportation but give the optimum way access public transportation. In the future all very large cities will have only mass transit vehicles allowed in the city their is simply not enough space to drive a car or airplane or anything else in the super dense cities. Terrafugia is already obsolete because it needs a runway. I have answers to all of your very well thought out concerns but it would take hours to discuss. By the way the nearest thing to a flying car available immediately is the super sky cycle at http://www.thebutterflyllc.com/sscycle/sscycle.htm. Larry Neal will sell you the roadable gyroplane
    immediately, please tell him that I sent you if you are interested since I am one of his dealers.
    Thanks,Stan

  8. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stan View Post
    I want to mention that the Verticraft is not a flying car but it makes them obsolete because they still need a runway
    Stan, is the Verticraft more like a helicopter? Please share with us some technical details or at least a picture so we can understand what you are attempting to do.

  9. #29

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    I'm betting ducted fans - it's the shortest route to VTOL and limits exposure of moving blades to the operators.
    The opinions and statements of this poster are largely based on facts and portray a possible version of the actual events.

  10. #30

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    Hi John, it is a modern day version of POGO shown in the following you tube video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nh9dhBJY010

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