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Thread: We reached a settlement agreement with the FAA re: ATC fees for AirVenture

  1. #81
    PaulDow's Avatar
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    A few obvious items are the ability to land multiple aircraft on the same runway at the same time (colored dots). Converting a taxiway into an active runway, and allowing camping around an active runway too. The Fisk arrival process isn't very standard.

  2. #82
    Jim Heffelfinger's Avatar
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    Oshkosh is probably the most exempted aviation activity on the planet for that week. I offer the NOTAM from last year http://www.airventure.org/flying/2013_notam.pdf
    The level of training that goes into qualified for working at AV is amazing. There was a video last year(?) that showcased the tiered mentoring system needed to be a "on your own" AV controller.
    Take a moment to reflect - would you like to camp and hold down a high stress full-time job for a week? Juggling toilet/shower/dressing time so you can be ready to work at a specific moment. And when you are off duty - have a dynamic party all around you while you try get some quiet "me time" to do it all over again the next day?
    I thought so.

  3. #83

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Heffelfinger View Post
    Oshkosh is probably the most exempted aviation activity on the planet for that week. I offer the NOTAM from last year http://www.airventure.org/flying/2013_notam.pdf
    The level of training that goes into qualified for working at AV is amazing. There was a video last year(?) that showcased the tiered mentoring system needed to be a "on your own" AV controller.
    Take a moment to reflect - would you like to camp and hold down a high stress full-time job for a week? Juggling toilet/shower/dressing time so you can be ready to work at a specific moment. And when you are off duty - have a dynamic party all around you while you try get some quiet "me time" to do it all over again the next day?
    I thought so.
    http://www.eaavideo.org/video.aspx?v=2581398423001

  4. #84

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    Quote Originally Posted by obmaha View Post
    Are you serious?
    Yes. I would like to know what specific exemptions and waivers FAA grants for that week and how much each contributes to the volume of landings and take-offs that can be safely accomplished in an hour.

    I have flown to AirVenture and am familiar with the notam.
    Last edited by dougbush; 04-04-2014 at 06:51 PM.

  5. #85

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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulDow View Post
    A few obvious items are...
    Does anyone have the whole list?

    ...to land multiple aircraft on the same runway at the same time (colored dots).
    Is that one of them? A tower controller can't normally clear anyone to land until the runway is empty?

    Converting a taxiway into an active runway
    Isn't that the airport owner's decision?

    and allowing camping around an active runway too.
    What regulation or rule prohibits landings and take-offs near a campground?


    The Fisk arrival process isn't very standard.
    Yes, the radio silence and wing rocking is nonstandard, but it's common in Class B & C to send inbound traffic to a waypoint, then assign a runway and route to get there.
    Last edited by dougbush; 04-04-2014 at 07:11 PM.

  6. #86

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Heffelfinger View Post
    Take a moment to reflect - would you like to camp and hold down a high stress full-time job for a week? Juggling toilet/shower/dressing time so you can be ready to work at a specific moment. And when you are off duty - have a dynamic party all around you while you try get some quiet "me time" to do it all over again the next day?
    I thought so.
    No, but there are other housing options, and I don't believe controllers are generally prohibited from camping on work nights.

  7. #87

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Heffelfinger View Post
    Take a moment to reflect - would you like to camp and hold down a high stress full-time job for a week? Juggling toilet/shower/dressing time so you can be ready to work at a specific moment. And when you are off duty - have a dynamic party all around you while you try get some quiet "me time" to do it all over again the next day?
    I thought so.
    Guess they could always elect to not volunteer if working conditions are too harsh.

  8. #88
    Mayhemxpc's Avatar
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    Let's not get spun up about the cost of lodging for the controllers. The government itself determines what the per diem rates are for different areas of the country at different times in the year. These are based on actual survey costs at an agreed rate. That is what the reimbursement rate should be for AirVenture. (For all of Wisconsin in 2014 that is $83/night for lodging and $46/day for meals and incidental expenses.) The Federal Travel Regulations also specify the objective standards for the accomodations. The FAA is required to book the travel and accommodations through the agency's access to an e-travel service, which includes agrees rates between the government and the hotel or airline. If the FAA disagrees with the established per diem rate, then they should take that up with the GSA, not expect the EAA to enter into a contract that violates the Federal Travel Regulations. That said, I don't know that the FAA has expressed any disagreement with that rate.

    Personally, I would like the controllers to be well rested.

    That said, the Federal travel regulations also forbid a non-federal entity from making cash payments to a federal agency to cover official travel by federal employees. (Federal Acquisition Regulation 304-3.4) (But Rule of Law by the Federal Government doesn't seem to apply much anymore.)

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