Open Source Aircraft Design for CNC?

[JNicol]

Yes, SolidWorks can also slice up the 3D geometry to make such plugs. Now all we need is the geometry...


Glad to see that we're on the same wavelength. So, let's start pushing the cart. The way I see it this is a team effort - I can't do it on my own and I suspect that nobody else will claim that they can. But we have strength in numbers - of the 4000 odd forum members we only need 20 or 30 enthusiasts to identify with the idea. As such, we have to lay down some ground rules to prevent the horse from looking like a camel. Some comments/suggestions:
1. This is not just a team - it's a cyber team. We all have to practice restraint, flexibility and tolerance of eachothers' ideas and opinions, but we can't please everybody all the time.
2. This forum is the main line of communication and we are an international team so we don't have the advantage of frequent face-to-face meetings. Again flexibility and tolerance is the name of the game.

I've probably left out a great deal but hopefully it's a start.
Am I crazy to think that this will work?

Agree with everything you have just said..... but to focus effort, the initial team have also created an Open Source initiative including a .org website. What we would like to do is get a source forge environment set up for the avionics side eventually and a resource repository for the plans, files and so on fairly soon. The EAA forum is not the best place for us to do this, but a great place to stir up interest and post progress! We still have some minor housekeeping to do and should be ready to open the doors in the next couple of days....

* It may be prudent to build a 1:4 scale R/C model just to give everybody the confidence that the thing will fly.

Yes! Working on a prototype now (from a well-known aircraft type), which is a 1/4 scale model.... I wasn't planning on making it fly because I have zero R/C experience, but someone in the team might want to do that.

[Jeffrey Meyer]

Hi all,

I just noticed this plane, designed for CNC. Building hours claimed to be 160-250 hours (see the bottom of the page). http://www.skykits.com/Comparison.html Now that is closer to my liking and shows the true potential of CNC based plans...

jim.bo

You've just taken a giant stride for mankind - started the question of the specification. Some comments:
1. Do we want GA, LSA, hang-glider, etc.?
2. Do we want all-metal, composites or hybrid? (I prefer a sleek composite machine).
3. Metal cutting CNC machines (Router, Laser, Water jet, punches) need to be somewhat more robust and rigid than foam and wood cutting machines. Laser cutting heads are quite expensive (thousands).

[Jeffrey Meyer]

Agree with everything you have just said..... but to focus effort, the initial team have also created an Open Source initiative including a .org website. What we would like to do is get a source forge environment set up for the avionics side eventually and a resource repository for the plans, files and so on fairly soon. The EAA forum is not the best place for us to do this, but a great place to stir up interest and post progress! We still have some minor housekeeping to do and should be ready to open the doors in the next couple of days....

The tension is killing me ...

Yes! Working on a prototype now (from a well-known aircraft type), which is a 1/4 scale model.... I wasn't planning on making it fly because I have zero R/C experience, but someone in the team might want to do that.

I'll be happy to make and fly the model and include some telemetry and data logging - sort of a flying wind tunnel.

[JNicol]

The tension is killing me ...





I'll be happy to make and fly the model and include some telemetry and data logging - sort of a flying wind tunnel.

Hi Jeffrey,

I sent you a PM, did you get it?

[jim.bo12345]

You've just taken a giant stride for mankind - started the question of the specification. Some comments:
1. Do we want GA, LSA, hang-glider, etc.?
2. Do we want all-metal, composites or hybrid? (I prefer a sleek composite machine).
3. Metal cutting CNC machines (Router, Laser, Water jet, punches) need to be somewhat more robust and rigid than foam and wood cutting machines. Laser cutting heads are quite expensive (thousands).

Jeffrey,

John is working hard behind the scenes to put together the open source framework. It will come soon....

Until then I just speak for myself.

I am not looking this as a differentiation between the various class of airplanes or technologies. I am looking this as a differentiation between affordability or not. Whatever technologies and planes takes us closer to that, I am happy with it. A young kid only need a single seater to get into aviation, a young couple a 2-seater, an older couple with kids a 4-seater, a hunter/outdoor person a STOL, so we all have individual needs and need different planes. But affordability and quick build is the common thread.

As I mentioned before, unless price, performance and operating expense can compete with a car, it is a hard sell for a normal person.

CNC based machines certainly can reduce part creation time, but there is assembly time and only reducing part counts that can effect that seriously. As far as the various technologies available to build, I favor the appropriate technologies for its use. For example, I see to often a "metal" airplane, a "composite" airplane, a "wood" airplane, but in reality, each area have its optimum material. For highly stressed area like spar probably carbon fiber is optimum, for reducing parts in the wing probably solid foam core is optimum, for wing skin something that only needs minimum finish is optimum (aluminum? or plywood? or honeycomb?). Of course none of that address operating cost (needs a small empty weight) and storage cost (needs foldable wing). So I hope the open plane organization address all these these issues over time in a systematic way, so at the end both the aviation community and general public wins. Because that is the real goal.

I see potential as a entry level single seat CNC plane both the Volksplane and the Hummel Bird. But both of those planes needs to loose some serious weight using carbon spars and using different lighter but still CNC based technologies. But the potential is there. If those planes could be redesigned to be under 250 lbs empty weight, we would have some good little fun planes. But I am going too far ahead, so lets stop here.

jim.bo

[Jeffrey Meyer]

Hi Jeffrey,

I sent you a PM, did you get it?

Nope!

[jim.bo12345]

Hi all,

Why we are waiting for John, why don't we start identifying possible candidates to CNC based conversion? I would assume, one would look for planes with minimum compound curves.

I don't mean to suggest that we take an existing design and convert that to CNC, since there a legal issues there, rather to identify existing designs and part types that we can look and say, "Wow, we can do that with CNC "better, faster and cheaper". In other words to start to flow the CNC creative juices.

I assume, anyone who built airplane can already identify parts, where this process is applicable, so I assume, we will have plenty of candidates. If possible include a link or a picture to see what are you thinking is appropriate for CNC.

So if nothing else, we will have a little database of ideas for the "next CNC plane design".

Jim.bo

[Jeffrey Meyer]

Jeffrey,

John is working hard behind the scenes to put together the open source framework. It will come soon....

Until then I just speak for myself.

I am not looking..........
jim.bo

OK - I don't want to tread on any corns or crash any parties. Let me know if and when I can help.

[jim.bo12345]

Jeffrey, check your forum email. I sent you one. Did you get it?

jim.bo

[jim.bo12345]

Just FYI,

On the link attached, I can see some good idea, create not just the rib parts with the CNC, but also the assembly fixtures. http://www.steenaero.com/Products/wing_kits.cfm

jim.bo