New Experimental Turboprop

[Floatsflyer]

No, it is not Jim Bede. I don't even know who that is.

This admission confirms that you are either very young and/or have never been associated with the general aviation business. Fair enough, 98% of my friends, acquaintances and family members wouldn't know him if they tripped over him. But you should get to know him and others(e.g Eclipse) who have given GA a black mark and have left many investors and buyers with significant financial losses. I mention Eclipse as an example(so many companies litter the GA graveyard of good intentions and snake oil entrepreneurs) mainly because they occupy the apex as the biggest financial failure in the entire history of GA--well over $1billion.

If you research these people and their companies you will quickly understand all the skepticism and cynicism and you will also get a required education in what NOT to do to be successful and how to properly win over friends and influence people in the aviation community. If you don't learn from history, you are doomed to repeat it.

[rwanttaja]

No, it is not Jim Bede. I don't even know who that is.

Wow. Just....wow.

Look, I have no problems saying who I am, but the engineer asked me specifically to not speak of his name because of potential law suit issues with his prior company. I can't say more than that.

Hmmm...and do you mention this to prospective investors? I mean, if I'm going to invest $10 million or so in a company, I'd think the possibility that chief designer might get his pants sued off for stealing IP from his former company is something I'd like to know. Just sayin'.

You guys aren't posting questions. Your attacking me and being very harsh. There hasn't been discussion, there has been rock throwing and me trying to dodge.

You've been asked nicely for details, but your response was, you can't PROVIDE answers their questions. "I have an initial drawing and we have 3/4 of the airplane modeled in 3D. Those items do not belong to me at this point so I do not have the authority to share them at this time." So far, the only information you've provided is that ownership of the IP might be subject to a lawsuit.

So: What technical information *can* you share?

Ron Wanttaja

[gabbett1]

Hmmm...and do you mention this to prospective investors? I mean, if I'm going to invest $10 million or so in a company, I'd think the possibility that chief designer might get his pants sued off for stealing IP from his former company is something I'd like to know. Just sayin'.

No of course not. But again, I would speak one on one with potential investors. I just don't want to blast info about him over the open internet.

You've been asked nicely for details, but your response was, you can't PROVIDE answers their questions. "I have an initial drawing and we have 3/4 of the airplane modeled in 3D. Those items do not belong to me at this point so I do not have the authority to share them at this time." So far, the only information you've provided is that ownership of the IP might be subject to a lawsuit.

So: What technical information *can* you share?

Ron Wanttaja

I've been asked nicely very little. It's so strong that someone that I don't even know had to step in and defend me, which I greatly appreciate by the way.

He isn't subject to a law suit. It's a very long story and again, not something I want to blast over the open internet. His former employer is looking for any reason at all to try and sue him again, since they lost so badly the first time.

What I can tell you is that he does have a plane that is currently out there and flying, AND the data gathered from that airplane we can use to get a very good idea of what our design will do. Not exact but pretty close.

[gabbett1]

This admission confirms that you are either very young and/or have never been associated with the general aviation business. Fair enough, 98% of my friends, acquaintances and family members wouldn't know him if they tripped over him. But you should get to know him and others(e.g Eclipse) who have given GA a black mark and have left many investors and buyers with significant financial losses. I mention Eclipse as an example(so many companies litter the GA graveyard of good intentions and snake oil entrepreneurs) mainly because they occupy the apex as the biggest financial failure in the entire history of GA--well over $1billion.

If you research these people and their companies you will quickly understand all the skepticism and cynicism and you will also get a required education in what NOT to do to be successful and how to properly win over friends and influence people in the aviation community. If you don't learn from history, you are doomed to repeat it.

I'm fairly young yes, I'm 35. But I didn't follow the who did what of aviation business because that wasn't my interest for a long time. I know about Eclipse and how much of a failure that was. Obviously there is a lot of risk in this business. However, we feel that if done right, it could be a very good product for us to sell to our customers. I'm trying to learn more about what people have done wrong and what not to do, but I have the benefit of having a partner that has already done it for 10 years or more.

[Floatsflyer]

Look, I have no problems saying who I am, but the engineer asked me specifically to not speak of his name because of potential law suit issues with his prior company. I can't say more than that.

Have you ever heard the expression, "you don't get a second chance to make a first impression." With voluntary, naïve statements/admissions like this and in your posting#12, all you're accomplishing is raising more red flags, giving more credence to the skepticism that already abounds and does not endear you to people that could be interested. Too much surreptitiousness and too many negative admissions make your case weaker and weaker and all you're doing is digging a deeper hole for yourself.

What's funny and ironic to me now is that Ron still wants to hear more from you and I'm now convinced you and your partner are so far away from anything resembling a coherent realistic proposal and have come to the market prematurely... to be kind. Stop this immediately and rethink what you don't have at the moment or the restrictions that are preventing an intelligent, cogent and business-like presentation. If you did this on "Shark Tank" or Dragons Den" you would have been skewered beyond imagination. When you are ready come back here, we're a forgiving bunch.

[Floatsflyer]

Look, I have no problems saying who I am, but the engineer asked me specifically to not speak of his name because of potential law suit issues with his prior company. I can't say more than that.

Have you ever heard the expression, "you don't get a second chance to make a first impression." With voluntary, naïve statements/admissions like this and in your posting#12, all you're accomplishing is raising more red flags, giving more credence to the skepticism that already abounds and does not endear you to people that could be interested. Too much surreptitiousness and too many negative admissions make your case weaker and weaker and all you're doing is digging a deeper hole for yourself.

What's funny and ironic to me now is that Ron still wants to hear more you and I'm now convinced you and your partner are so far away from anything resembling a coherent realistic proposal and have come to the market prematurely... to be kind. Stop this immediately and rethink what you don't have at the moment or the restrictions that are preventing an intelligent, cogent and business-like presentation. If you did this on "Shark Tank" or Dragons Den" you would have been skewered beyond imagination. When you are ready come back here, we're a forgiving bunch.

[rwanttaja]

No of course not. But again, I would speak one on one with potential investors. I just don't want to blast info about him over the open internet.

Based on the information you've provided, one of the participants in this forum has already identified your designer. I've seen a picture of the "plane currently out there and flying" (photo taken from the front right quarter, very dark color, plane looks a lot like a Lancair IV, long nose) on the designer's web page, and the web link to his legal defense fund. And the web page the outfit that sued him. And his page about air racing at Reno.

The guy that discovered this is uncomfortable about identifying your designer, and I'm respecting his wishes by being very generic (heck, with his mad skilz, I ain't getting HIM mad at me... :-).

In short, if you're trying to shill up interest in the airplane without revealing information about the designer, you've already failed.

I've worked in the aerospace field for nearly 40 years, most of it on classified or proprietary projects. All that time, the security folks have hammered into us how little snippets of information can be pieced together to reveal the whole. How attempt to "talk around" sensitive data can be harmful, or attempts to be public but mysterious inevitably backfire. We've just seen a classic example of this.

But in any case, Gabby, I'm satisfied. I know the background on the company I know why you're trying to hide him, and from who. To quote the movie "Jurassic Park": "....After some consideration, I've decided not to endorse your park."

Go ahead and post technical information now.

Ron Wanttaja

[Infidel]

Um....yep.

[av-mech]

Designers, investors, lawsuits etc..... Obviously nobody took time to even do a market survey and see how small the potential pool is for this type of aircraft. the Heydays of the late 80's and most of the 90's is well behind us when thinking in terms of people throwing vast amounts of money around in experimental aviation. This aircraft is not a viable product in today's homebuilt market.

[gabbett1]

Based on the information you've provided, one of the participants in this forum has already identified your designer. I've seen a picture of the "plane currently out there and flying" (photo taken from the front right quarter, very dark color, plane looks a lot like a Lancair IV, long nose) on the designer's web page, and the web link to his legal defense fund. And the web page the outfit that sued him. And his page about air racing at Reno.

The guy that discovered this is uncomfortable about identifying your designer, and I'm respecting his wishes by being very generic (heck, with his mad skilz, I ain't getting HIM mad at me... :-).

In short, if you're trying to shill up interest in the airplane without revealing information about the designer, you've already failed.

I've worked in the aerospace field for nearly 40 years, most of it on classified or proprietary projects. All that time, the security folks have hammered into us how little snippets of information can be pieced together to reveal the whole. How attempt to "talk around" sensitive data can be harmful, or attempts to be public but mysterious inevitably backfire. We've just seen a classic example of this.

But in any case, Gabby, I'm satisfied. I know the background on the company I know why you're trying to hide him, and from who. To quote the movie "Jurassic Park": "....After some consideration, I've decided not to endorse your park."

Go ahead and post technical information now.

Ron Wanttaja

I haven't seen anyone state who the designer is and I'm not really sure what airplane your referring to.

I think I'm done here. There is obviously not very many people here that are willing to have a good conversation about a potential product. It's sad that so many of you have been so jaded by past products/people that you have to treat someone trying to do something good with such disdain.