Flying high

[Mike Berg]

Being a old guy I don't know much about the spoiled and nutty Beiber kid or his apparently also nutty dad but I do know that MJ is an illegal drug....period (borrowed the term 'period' from Obama) whether the state of Colorado or any other state says it isn't. My understanding is that on the national level it is still illegal. Where does one draw the line? How about meth or heroin? In addition to my pilot's license I also hold a commercial drivers license and most recently a school bus driver's license, although I'm now retired. Both required a random drug and alcohol test which I had no problem submitting to. To me, illegal is illegal...period. I think the jury is still out on whether it's 'safe' and, by the way, notice I said "random drug and alcohol testing". Failure of either was condition for dismissal for a good reason.

[Bill Greenwood]

Marty, I read an article some years ago, maybe in Consumer Reports, about how bad the air was in the passenger compartments of airliners. While the pilots are supplied with fresh air from outside, passenger air is largely recycled and it saves money for the airline that way. Any commercial jetliner in the U S has a cockpit shut off from the cabin by walls and a reinforced and closed door ,if not an airtight bulkhead, and they have the outside and independent air/o2 supply, ,without needing masks.

The Lear accident is not much proof. Here you have a badly flown approach and a crash and then pilots who may have used pot at some time in the past. Are there any badly flown approaches and crashes where no pot is in their history? How about the badly flown and fatal bounced landing in Aspen a few weeks back? Was it pot or the 29 Knot tailwind? Had any pilot in any other accident used anything like alcohol or other drugs in the recent past?

I read your Australian research, don't know much about it except some of it is opinion, and some of the studies are on only a handful of people, 6 or so.

For much of the last century the U S govt has classified M J as a class one drug,(addcitive with no medical use,they claim) and thus illegal so that real unbiased research was also prohibited. Therefore no significant research has been been done here. We can guesstimate that pot may impair driving or flying but no one really knows for sure how much. How can any University or hospital perform a legitamate unbiased scientific study when the govt has already decided the result back in 1920? It is pretty obvious that the U S govt position is at least part a lie as we know now that M J does have some real beneficial medical uses and in some cases a critical needs like treating kids seizures, when other drugs don't work. We certainly don't see any significant number of auto accidents where the drivers are using only pot, unlike the hundreds of thousands of drunk driving wrecks. And I can tell that I can show you expert skiing and ski racing by people who were using it. And I assume that many pro athletes can perform at a high level while using it.

[tspear]

tspear, the story of the pilots putting on O2 masks is on several sources, but it may or may not be true. In a airliner, the pilots air is from a separate source than the passengers in the cabin, thus they are not breathing what the passengers are. A corporate jet may be different, the cockpit and cabin may be together. I don't know for sure. I wonder if there are any smoke detectors/fire alarms like in a airliner restroom. If so did they go off? At any rate the mask story would likely have come from the pilots and in any case no drugs were found when customs inspected the plane after the flight, so we have a good story, but no evidence other than that.

Bill,

I have been a passenger on a few small/midsize business class jets. None of them had separate air systems or even air tight separation between compartments. I know the King Airs worked on by the local shop do not have any separation.

Beyond that, the dogs "alerted" to the presence of drug smells, and there have been multiple reports by CBP and others that there was a residue smell of drugs. From everything I have read over the years, the smell of drugs is not a prosecutable offense, even the presence of THC does not count. The police/CBP must find actual drugs.

Tim

[RV8505]

Marty, I read an article some years ago, maybe in Consumer Reports, about how bad the air was in the passenger compartments of airliners. While the pilots are supplied with fresh air from outside, passenger air is largely recycled and it saves money for the airline that way. Any commercial jetliner in the U S has a cockpit shut off from the cabin by walls and a reinforced and closed door ,if not an airtight bulkhead, and they have the outside and independent air/o2 supply, ,without needing masks.

It is total B.S. as the air comes from the 8th and 13th stages from the engines and thru the air cycle machines ( Packs). I put in the cockpit doors on after 911 and they are not air tight. The emergency O2 systems are seprate. The pilots off a O2 bottle and the passengers off a oxygen generators. I seriously don't belive the pilots smelled anything as air enters the cabin and exits thru the rear of the cabin tube thru the outflow valve. Just another case like the rest of the news in this country of reporter fabrication.

[champ driver]

On all of the corporate planes I've flown for work there is only one pressure vessel, cockpit and cabin breath the same air. Now it depends on where the outflow valves are on the plane on whether you're going to smell anything from the cabin or not. Some valves are on the back bulkhead, but on the current plane I now fly, they're both on the belly near the door, probable 4' behind our heads. I can guarantee that we sometimes smell passengers making drinks and eating their lunches, and I know that MJ is much more pungent than either of those.
I'm not sure where the outflow valves are on a G-IV, but I can easily believe the crew could smell MJ, and I don't believe it was "reporter fabrication".
I can tell you if I were on that flight and smelled MJ I would have the masks on, there is no way I'm going to jeopardize my career and livelihood by having it possibly show up on a random drug test later.

[Bill Greenwood]

Hey, maybe charter pilots nowadays owe a "thank you" to Bieber. It's kind of like "the dog ate my homework". Now if a pilot should test positive for a banned substance, they can always claim, "It wasn't me, it was the rock star or movie star or sports star that was in the cabin".

It would be hard to imagine any pilot flying while impaired, but I know of at least two airline pilots who did it while drinking and got by with it for years.

I know myself, that I would never fly after even one beer, but millions of people have a drink at lunch or dinner and then drive ok. I have driven after one beer or part of one, but I don't like to do it if I have a long or difficult drive. In driving you can to some extant control your speed and exposure, but in flying you never know when you might need all your best ability and that is not the time to have any impairment.

[Bill Greenwood]

Mike Berg, as for as being "illegal ", not anymore, medical marijuana is legal in almost half the states now as well as DC, and this is likely to spread because there seem to be some important and critical uses for it , other than just general relaxation. The fed Atty Gen has stated that no one will be prosecuted for this. There is an article on the internet yesterday about it's use spreading to the conservative largely Republican south, as some parents, even a police officer finding that it is the only thing to help with child seizures.

[Mike Berg]

Bill, it's not 'illegal" because the AJ has put out a mandate (for lack of a better term) not to prosecute but it's still listed as a class one as far as I know so that still makes it illegal. Medical wise? I've seen pictures on TV of some of the 'medical needing folks' and they mostly look what my son called 'stoners' when he was in school...."Oh! Yeah! Man! I have a bad back so I really need this and I can't work!" All one needs to do it find a permissive doctor. Kind of like the 'undocumented' that are here illegally by crossing our borders. Sorry they're not undocumented....they're illegal...period! I'm also assuming there is a reason for random drug checks for a commercial license.

[martymayes]

Marty, I read an article some years ago, maybe in Consumer Reports, about how bad the air was in the passenger compartments of airliners. While the pilots are supplied with fresh air from outside, passenger air is largely recycled and it saves money for the airline that way. Any commercial jetliner in the U S has a cockpit shut off from the cabin by walls and a reinforced and closed door ,if not an airtight bulkhead, and they have the outside and independent air/o2 supply, ,without needing masks.

Well Bill, I only have about 11k hrs in transport jets but I can say with reasonable accuracy that your systems knowledge is deficient.

And before anyone gets the wrong idea, MJ does not enhance one's performance and abilities. And anyone who thinks they can claim secondhand exposure better study up on legal TLV's.

Even the liberal state of WA has put a TLV on the quantity of MJ that can be in one's system in order to legally operate a motor vehicle on the road, so in the future, you will likely see some motorist fined for "driving under the influence"

[Bill Greenwood]

Marty the article I read about the air quality in airliners seemed to be correct, and I also asked some airline pilots about it and they agreed at that time.

I personally don't know anything about "transport category" airplanes other as a passenger.

What is a "TLV" for those who are not up on the latest slang or legalese?