Dunno if I was just more observant in 2013, but it seemed like there were many more butts on the ground last year. Seemed like most were along the pathway on the south side of the forums area by the metal / welding / fabric pavillions, but that could have just been the only data point I noticed.
Ah ha!!! The evidence is in, now we know. I knew it was those homebuilder guys, the ones who throw conventional wisdom(and butts) to the wind.Originally Posted by CarlOrton
Yes, for the US it's around 80%. EAA'ers are likely on par with the general population, which means the EAA isn't about to alienate 1/5 of it's members with a smoking ban at AV.
I am sure that there are smokers who put their litter in a butt can, but smokers are one of the few groups that at least quite a few will throw their trash on the ground. I have seen well dressed people in a nice car throw their butts out the window, in my home town where only perhaps 10% of people smoke. If you go most anywhere you will not find empty bags from the bakery on the ground after people finish their muffins or cookies or donuts. You generally don't see people throwing their Coke bottles( or Pepsi if it is EAA which doesn't offer Cokes or Dr. Pepper) or even beer bottles on the ground. Anywhere there is smoking , garage, parking lot, business, park, subway or just sidewalk will have cigarette butts on them. This is something that other people notice and it is one of the things that make us really dislike smoking, anywhere. It shows that if one is addicted to cigarettes, they really are controlled by that and don't give a hoot about anything else when it comes down to it. I don't think many smokers even notice what they do with their trash or even consider it as wrong to litter. If tobacco is really so great they should keep all of it, maybe put it in their pocket.
If a person is so addicted that they are going to smoke in a house with kids or in a car with kids or in a hotel room despite the non smoking policies and signs , that tells you something about the person's attitudes toward others. I recall a few years back, seeing Sylvester Stallone in our old airport FBO office smoking a cigar right under the large no smoking sign. Another thing you will see in cities where there are non smoking hotels or restaurants is that smokers will stand just outside the doors so that the fumes may blow inside or at the least everyone who goes in or out has to walk through their cloud.
Last edited by Bill Greenwood; 01-14-2014 at 01:22 PM.
As for how many people smoke, surveys a few years back show only 18%, so therefore 82% are non smokers. It is hard to get an 82% majority on many things, and it may be more than 82% for EAA. As you go up the scale of education and maybe other factors like occupation or income you get less smokers, so I suspect the folks at EAA are above the norm on these measures and smoke less. There are, of course, other factors like geographic regions where some places like Seattle still seem to have more smokers and some like Colorado have less. I think older people may still smoke more and younger less.
Anyway, what I'd like to see EAA do is poll their members, both on this and other major questions, and follow the wishes of the majority. 82% of members should not be ignored to indulge the few. If smoking were banned at EAA, it would bring us up to the standards of most other astute groups, and for a group that is trying to involve more young people, it would set a good example for them.
Would it lose any business for EAA? I don"t think so. For the few of the 18% who might quit coming, just as likely some of the other 82% will come. Even foreigners who smoke at home are used to going places like airlines where they don't smoke.
When Mayor Stirling began non smoking in Aspen 20 years ago, there were dire predictions, one bar in particular, that it meant the end of visitors in Aspen. To the contrary, we were packed this Christmas with the good snow and the airport is wingtip to tip with fancy jets.
Last edited by Bill Greenwood; 01-14-2014 at 01:24 PM.
Fact is some people still smoke, and I don't have a problem with that. What I do have a problem with is that in todays society, smoking comes with conditions, smoke in designated areas only, and dispose of your waste in the receptical provided in those areas. If you can't do that, then I have a problem with you being a smoker.
I could never understand why any smoker thinks they can just throw their waste on the ground where ever they happen to be, and the one that really burns my a$$ is those who flick glowing butts out the car window. Want to smoke, fine, but be considerate of others who do not, and pick up after yourselves!
Bill, I read where Madison/Dane county are voting on a referendum this spring to see if residents want to legalize marijuana use. Perhaps it won't be long before Wisconsin follows Colorado's lead and legalizes marijuana use. By AV 2015, visitors to A.V. might be getting high in more ways than one. On the plus side, nobody throws their marijuana cig butts on the ground.
[QUOTE=Bill Greenwood;38216] I have seen well dressed people in a nice car throw their butts out the window... If you go most anywhere you will not find empty bags from the bakery on the ground after people finish their muffins or cookies or donuts. You generally don't see people throwing their Coke bottles( or Pepsi if it is EAA which doesn't offer Cokes or Dr. Pepper) or even beer bottles on the ground. QUOTE]
Yes, they do throw butts out the window(even in not so nice cars). That's because the north american car manufacturers stopped putting ashtrays in them 20 years ago! Perhaps you should direct your animous to them and suggest on their forums that they should build cars with ashtrays once again.
As far as other litter is concerned, you must live in a insular, utopian Stepford Wives environment. I live in a big city(Toronto) and see litter strewn and my city has the reputation over decades of being one of the cleanest in the world. One of the highest compliments Oshkosh receives year in and year out is the cleanliness of the grounds considering 600,000+ people attend. So I and others here don't think there is the slightest problem or issue present. If it ain't broke, don't fix it!!! Gotta get off the soapbox and speak to something else that actually impacts your fellow man/woman.
Last edited by Floatsflyer; 01-14-2014 at 12:54 PM.
Floats, a question aside from smoking if I may.
Is Gatinuea (sp) a suburb of Toronto?
I am thinking of attending a seminar soon at the Canadian aviation museum in the next few weeks.
Is the weather really bad now? Are there much non aviation sights to see?
Thanks
And yes, I am lucky to live in a very nice place, the downside is the real estate is so expensive there and the light fun type gen aviation is definitely in minority at our airport. And except for cig butts, it is not considered cool to litter there.
As for cars not having ash trays now, I don't have tray in my car for newspapers or soft drink bottles, but I put them in reclyling, not out the window.
Last edited by Bill Greenwood; 01-14-2014 at 01:38 PM.
A poll!!! I don't think so...common sense shall and will prevail. If EAA HQ thinks a problem exists, I'm sure we'll hear about it.
I want to address your scewed vision of majority/minority with respect to civil liberties and human rights. Smokers are indeed the minority and slowly becoming even moreso. But FYI, going all the way back to the ancient Magna Carta, civil rights concerns and legislation are put into place to PROTECT minorities, not alienate and disenfranchise them(or as you say, indulge).
Parents are responsible for setting high standards and good examples, not EAA or any other organization.
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