Smoking at Airventure,

[pacerpilot]

Bill, Avgas is bad for you when you spill it on your hands. Exhaust is really bad for you. I sprayed some Stits Poly the other day without a respirator (I know, but it was a small patch and my respirator finally fell apart) which is bad too. The fact is we expose ourselves to many dangers. Surely we should reduce the ones we can-like smoking. But, unlike Avgas, exhaust and, a deteriorated respirator, smoking has a way of correcting itself. It kills the smoker. Until enough people wise up or die I'd say the best thing to do is avoid what you can-and rip a huge fart for when you can't!!! That's my favorite when walking into WalMart through their "smoke zone", i.e. the front door.

[WWhunter]

Delete

[Richard Warner]

My 2000 Chevy pick up and 205 Lincoln Aviator both have ash trays. I quit smoking 26 years ago and would never go back. I don't like smokers blowing smoke on me, but I'm not about to want EAA to ban smoking. As for voting to ban it, that's kind of like three wolves and a lamb voting for what to have for dinner. If you see someone smoking out of a designated area, report it to security. If you see someone throw a butt on the ground, mention to them that we don't do that at Oshkosh. There are some people who wish to control what other people do and say. If I were allowed to mention it here, I could almost accurately guess their political affiliation, but I won't do that because it would be said I was being politically incorrect. I think a lot of the problem has come up in the last 20 or 30 years when EAA started allowing people who have no aviation background onto the flightline. Sure, they sell them a one year membership at the entrance gate and all of a sudden they are allowed on the flightline around member's planes. Before that, they were not allowed on the flightline unless accompanied by an EAA member as their guest who would be responsible for their actions while on the flightline. I've seen women allowing their kids to climb on other folks airplanes and when I mentioned to them that it is not allowed, I am told to go to hell, it ain't your airplane, is it? These are the folks that throw trash including butts on the ground for the most part. This, to me, is a much bigger problem that whether someone smokes in a designated smoking area and happens to throw their butts on the ground.

[Richard Warner]

This smoking at EAA question is not that complex. We know beyond a doubt the smoke is bad for you, primary or secondary, despite what some smokers claim.
I'd like to see EAA do the right thing like most college campuses, etc., and this would not only meet the view of the majority, but be a good example for younger people.
Major quality hotel chains are non smoking, though you can still find a few on the low end that tolerate smoking and they smell like it. Same for restaurants, churches, etc. These businesses have not lost customers, they have gained them.If you are appealing to the higher end customer, they increasingly don't want to be around smoke.And businesses find lower cleaning costs and health care costs being cleaner.
It has nothing to do with "kids out of public schools" or me saying "people under $100k should not fly" or any other nonsense which of course I didn't say or write.
And in the long run since many smokers say they'd like to quit if nicotine was not so addictive, this would be helping them quit, as the more places where people don't smoke the more people quit.

If on the other hand, EAA doesn't change anything, we can live with it at Airventure. The limited smoking areas are outside, and most visitors aren't smoking anyway. When we had this discussion in August after Oshkosh some people didn't even realize there was smoking allowed there.
I do wonder if someone high up in EAA is a smoker since they are behind many other venues in their rules.
I think one of the reasons most people, up to 90% are nonsmokers where I live is that at 6000 to 8000 feet there is less oxygen so you don't want to waste any of it!

Churches?????????? I don't ever remember being in a church where folks smoked. The way to handle the problem of smokers smoking out of the designated areas is to have security remove them from the grounds. A few signs making folks aware of this should serve to remind folks not to smoke outside of those areas. That way there wouldn't be any butts to walk on except in those smoking areas.

[MADean]

All you have to do is look at the ground as you walk around air venture to see that people are throwing cigarette butts everywhere. No one should have to walk over that and no one should have to walk through a cloud of smoke.

EAA should take care of that just like sporting events have.

I remeber the first time I spent the entire week at Oshkosh. It was 1992. And as I was walking across the grounds on the last day, back to pack up my camp, I thought to myself how clean the grounds were. I specifically remember not even finding a cigarette butt on the ground. Of course that was before the general public was allowed on the flight line.

I'm just saying...

Oh, and as for football stadiums, and the like... those are "close seating" venues. Where you're packed in tight as a sardine. Oshkosh is much different.

[Mike M]

" Am I going to do anything about this beyond commenting on a web forum? Of course not. I'm pretty much the opposite of a control freak, nor do I despise my fellow human beings, or whatever else is your flavor of the day for pigeon-holing people who recognize irresponsible behavior that impacts fellow human beings."

I used a humor technique called "hyperpole" but if anyone thinks the shoe fits...

2 years ago we flew into Richmond Va and proceeded to the hotel. (big-name national chain). As we were checking in, we were asked, "Smoking or non-smoking?" Catching me off-guard, I was obviously taken aback, and replied, "You STILL have smoking rooms available?!?" To which the clerk replied, "Oh, yes! We have TWO WHOLE FLOORS dedicated to smoking rooms!"

By now I'm completely blown away by this. She then adds, "Remember - this is Richmond - home to X number of tobacco companies!"
r.

Richmond story reminded me....restroom at little airport in south Alabama......sign above the paper towel dispenser..."no we don't have those durn hot air machines that blow germs all over, our neighbors make a living from forest products"

[Jeff Boatright]

I used a humor technique called "hyperpole" but if anyone thinks the shoe fits...

Ah yeah. There's a certain whiff of something in the air here.

[Jeff Boatright]

I remeber the first time I spent the entire week at Oshkosh. It was 1992. And as I was walking across the grounds on the last day, back to pack up my camp, I thought to myself how clean the grounds were. I specifically remember not even finding a cigarette butt on the ground. Of course that was before the general public was allowed on the flight line.

I'm just saying...

Oh, and as for football stadiums, and the like... those are "close seating" venues. Where you're packed in tight as a sardine. Oshkosh is much different.

Good point about close seating venues versus Oshkosh. Not sure, though, that a comparison to how things were over 20 years ago (coming up on 22) holds as much weight, but I know what you mean about how it used to be. How it is now is different. As Richard Warner points out, there's a lot of people on the flight line now who are not long-term EAAers. Things change.

[Jeff Boatright]

... There are some people who wish to control what other people do and say. If I were allowed to mention it here, I could almost accurately guess their political affiliation, but I won't do that because it would be said I was being politically incorrect...

Or maybe just incorrect with no qualifiers?

People tend to be all over the political spectrum when it comes to their hobbyhorses (recall the case of Terri Schiavo).

[Bill Greenwood]

This has shifted away from smoking to when non members began to be allowed on the flight line. Now I have been coming to Oshkosh since 1984 and I am all for non members, that is the general public being allowed to walk among the planes. I like people and I like to promote and share our kind of sport aviation with more people. One of the best things about going to EAA is the feeling of being part of almost a family or at least the same type of club, like a summer camp for adults. People are almost always at their best, their most polite, most cooperative, like picking up litter, and sharing space on trams and at tables. I think that is the legacy that Paul set for and left for all of us, and we are at our best when following it. I have personally seen Paul in front of warbird briefing stop in Red One and get out and pick up, by hand, some cigarette butts.
Anyway, I think the general public is pretty well behaved and not a real problem, and I have never seen anyone smoking out among the airplanes. I like the way EAA does it, in the morning you can walk all the way out and see all the warbirds and then about an hour before show time people are sent back behind a crowd line.
There are all kinds of people at EAA, and one thing I like is that for one week we are all part of it together, whether liberal democrat or right wing republican. Maybe even we can see some of the way others see their issues and they see ours. Many things are not just all black/white.
Yes, it can be annoying to have someone climb on your plane, but really is your plane so fagile it is going to fall apart from one kid? If you own a T-6 do you think anyone ever climbed on it during the service years/ And I have never had anyone curse at me when Politely asking them to get off. If you are really disturbed by the public just put a rope around your plane with a polite "Don't touch" sign. I always use a sign, but not a rope.
If you want to look at it strickly from a selfish standpoint, we as airplane people are a minority and we need all the friends and voters on our side whenever we are faced with some anti aviation move or law like at Meigs Field or St. Pete in Florida or Santa Monica.