United pilot has heart attach mid flight

[1600vw]

Saw this on the news this morning. I guess the first class medical did not help here. If this would have been a pilot flying under the self check rule they are trying to pass this would be a black eye on that program.

So to me anyway this is a black eye for the third class medical. Never helped here. This should be fuel for the cause of why the third class medical does not work any better then what Sport Pilot program is doing.

Do I want all pilots to not have a first class medical or whatever its called, no, but a good argument as to why having one is not any better then self certify.

Tony

[Greg Bockelman]

Hard to make a sound case with only one data point.

[FlyingRon]

As Greg says, you can't extrapolate one data point into anything. I don't know how it hurts self-certification. The worst it does is say that the medical procedure isn't working which could be just as big of an argument that we should do away with it as needless, expensive bureaucracy (if you're republican, you can feel free to insert job-killing in the string of adjectives). Further, since this pilot was not flying at the time, we don't know if the SELF CERTIFICATION that every pilot does before he commences the flight (even six month intervals are no guarantee) that he was safe to fly.

In fact, both me and I believe the other Ron have over the years done our own ad hoc studies of pilot incapacitation accidents that glider pilots (who self certify) have no greater incident of medical impairment that occurs in aircraft accidents than powered pilots. This either means that the third class medical is a lousy screen and it lets these incidents in powered planes through or the level of occurrence is so slight to not be a statistical issue. Both argue against the medical and for self certification.

[cub builder]

In conjunction with the latest FAA trend with OSA, all pilots apparently should be subjected to a stress test for every physical. (as if dealing with the FAA isn't stressful enough).
-CubBuilder

[1600vw]

Flying my little EAB. If I have the smallest thing I do not fly. I have grounded myself over some things most would say is stupid, but that is how I do things. But what i was trying to say is just because you hold that 1st class medical or 3rd class, it still does not mean something like this will happen.
I just don't understand why we can not self certify to fly small SE airplanes. Seems you are no safer flying with the medical. This is what I am trying to say.

Tony

[Bob Dingley]

Hard to make a sound case with only one data point.

I believe there are lots of data points out there. But if it doesn't happen in flight,the FAA doesn't count it.


A co-worker didn't show for his flight. Someone swung by his house and found him in his car still in the driveway. Died of a heart attack. He had a very recent 1st class with EKG. FAA not notified. Another co-worker was off duty. His family went looking for him and found him in bed, died during the night. FAA not involved. Current Medical certificate. Another commercial pilot (didn't know him) started out on a short flight to pick up 3 passengers. Grabbed a quick snack from the refrigerator. Became incapacitated and crashed with two fatal. FAA found food poisoning. Current Medical Certificate.Time from snack to crash was about an hour. This is one that made the statistics. Another pilot friend passed away in his sleep. He was a serious runner. He was scheduled to fly that day and had a current medical. FAA not involved.

Several of my flying buds were claimed by cancer.They were younger than I, died while their medicals were still in effect and all were Viet Nam vets. Their cancers were of the type that are "presumed to be caused by Agent Orange" according to the VA. Yes, a small number were killed in crashes too.


I took an EKG when I renewed my First class back in the 90's. It was just before Christmas. About mid March, I get this Certified letter from the Federal Air Surgeon that says that my EKG was not acceptable. A photo copy was attached. I showed it to my wife who was a board certified PA at the time. She said that my heart looked OK. There was only one problem. The power to the leads had been cut, but the strip motored on.There was an inch or more of "flat lines" on the end. My solution was to get the scissors and fix it. But I took it back to my AME and we redid it.


The FAA let me haul passengers for three months with a ticker that they had reservations about. In previous dealings with the Federal Air Surgeon's office, I found that you could not talk to a MD. A lawyer always took the call. There appeared to be more lawyers than MDs in that office.


Many of my friends and I have been flying for along time and have great safety records.We can be trusted to fly in good weather in a airplane that weighs 1400 lbs or more with self certification. In fact, I just passed the eye test for a drivers license renewal without glasses.

[I_FLY_LOW]

Had a good friend of mine mid last year have a heart attack, while out on a long mountain bike ride.
1st class medical, late 30's, flying corporate, the epitome of perfect health.
Not an ounce of fat on him, great muscle tone, ate really well, exercised regularly.
Just had the out of the clear blue, widow maker heart attack.
He survived, but will most likely never be PIC, again.
Regular physicals didn't predict that.
With freak anomalies like that, how can any class medical certificate be any good?
What's the answer?
I don't know, but I do know I'm sick and tired of the bullshit red tape.

[Greg Bockelman]

With freak anomalies like that, how can any class medical certificate be any good?

As you said, ANOMALIES. Just because a few drop dead or otherwise have issues out of the blue does not mean the physicals don't have value. They are useful to detect trends over time in an individual.

I don't know, but I do know I'm sick and tired of the bullshit red tape.

What BS red tape? Having to do a physical every 2/5 years? Or dealing with the problems that the physicals might find? A physical every so often is not a bad thing. And if it detects anything it is best to deal with it earlier rather than later.

[pacerpilot]

Greg, I fly light sport now because it costs me over $400 a year to keep a medical. Not to mention the time off work to go to the doc. All because I have a minor medical issue and have past 40 years old. As for detecting problems, flight medicals aren't invasive enough to find anything of value. This case in point, he's an ATP with a first class medical. That takes an EKG to get every six months. How'd they miss the "warning signs" there? Simple, they aren't looking. The system is antiquated and ineffective.

[cub builder]

There are flight physicals and there are physicals. A flight physical is to obtain a piece of paper that the government requires me to have in my possession in order to fly my aircraft. A physical is with my own physician, is much more thorough, and is intended for actual health care and disease prevention. I would advise not confusing the two.

-CubBuilder