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Thread: Charts or iPads?

  1. #41

    Join Date
    Jul 2011
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    Sidney, OH
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    I've been surfing various blogs on OSH 365 today and tripped over this one, which is yet another attempted "food fight" started by Bill. Bill, keep up the good work, this is a fun topic! Here's my 2 cents for what it's worth. Since it's legal to use electronic devices in place of paper, and it's a lot easier, then we can expect that it will replace paper over time. Given the wide variety of aviators and aircraft along with a wide variety of missions it's fairly clear that some can and do operate using only paper on-board and mostly looking out the window. I'll bet Ron hasn't taken that chart out from under his butt in flight for years. He doesn't need an IPad, he barely needs a com radio! He's flying for fun!!! I bought a "mini" IPad last year and have been using Wings X, I started out just using the moving map page and comparing it to what I saw out the window. You don't have to keep your eyes glued to the screen to hold a heading, you can find a spot out in front of the windshield to fly toward and then just check the moving map like you would a heading indicator or compass...it's not a big distraction. Most of my flying is like Ron's and I have lakes, towns, railroad tracks, and such that aren't going to disappear if the battery goes dead. The IPad battery has a 10hr charge and the IPad has a small "battery %" window in the upper left corner of the screen so you know how much time you've got b/4 you go flying. I have slowly gained confidence in the device and my ability to use it, I have taken it on several X-country flights and it really improves my situational awareness. I tend to stay ahead of the airplane better, and it allows me to look out the window for the shear pleasure of it. I did experience a "black screen" last July while parked on a ramp in Indiana with temps in the 90's. I put the IPad in the FBO's refrigerator for about 10 minutes and it came back to life b/4 I took-off. It was a good lesson, now I take it with me when I leave the plane, end of problem. I tend to agree with Jim Hardin that the problems you state are more in the mind then real. Bill, if your interested check-out Austin Meyers "Xavion" video just Google "Xavion" and see where this stuff is going!!

    Joe

  2. #42
    Sam Buchanan's Avatar
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    Nov 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe LaMantia View Post
    I've been surfing various blogs on OSH 365 today and tripped over this one, which is yet another attempted "food fight" started by Bill. Bill, keep up the good work, this is a fun topic!
    I think this one turned out to be a lot more one-sided than Bill anticipated.

    The times, they [are] have changed.
    Last edited by Sam Buchanan; 01-29-2014 at 06:15 PM.
    Sam Buchanan
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  3. #43

    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Mount Perry, Ohio
    Posts
    32
    This was a topic i have been tossing around in my head a lot lately, as i am building my first Ultralight, its almost done. i too am looking at the electronics for navigation, but i want to learn the proper way for pilotage, using the paper maps, and flight planning. i went looking for the simple 1:500,000 plotter. you know the ones going for 7.00 to 20.00 in the shops. i wanted one in PDf form to print out and use overhead projector film to make my own, cheap and effective. i did not find one, so i am in the process of drawing up one from scratch. using a CAD program its accurate and i can scale it to any map i want to use it on. i can also add features to it to make charting easier.

    but after i learn the proper way to navigate then integrate the electronic version into my flying, want to do both pleasure and cross country flying.
    if you have an android phone, you can us AVARE it is a free sectional map with all of the bells and whistles, i have it on an old back up phone, to play with, and confrim my paper map reading skills.

    also dead batteris do tend to be wet blankett.

    Robert

  4. #44

    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    87
    Bill,

    First it should be listed as paper versus iPad. I have all the charts on the iPad, and my Andriod Tablet and my Phone....

    1. How long has it been since you flew outside of the area on your local WAC chart?

    Two weeks ago. I have another flight in two weeks which will go outside the local WAC again. In fact I am going to need three WAC charts on the next trip.

    2. How many actual Ifr approaches did you make this year?

    I have made about thirty approaches in IMC over the past twelve months. :p

    3. How long has it been since you made an actual Ifr approach outside your local state/area where you needed ifr charts from another part of the country?

    Two weeks ago. Based on headed to NH coast line in a couple weeks, likely will need them again.

    4. A sectional chart is roughly 2 x3 feet per side, so usually to show a state and more, and covers a good bit of area. How big is the screen on the iPad? Is it about 3x3 inches?

    The sectional use useless in the cockpit at 2x3 feet. You have to fold it down so you can fly the plane. I found when I used them I folded the sectional down to roughly the size of a standard piece of paper. My tablets are 10in, almost the size of regular paper. My phone is roughly 3x4 (backup device)....

    5. Is it easier to control the attitude of a plane when you can see the whole horizon out the window or easier when you are flying blind on just a 2 1/2 inch attitude indicator?

    Depends. In clouds, I like the 3in tall AI on my Aspen. In addition, if I am flying on an IFR plan where you need to stay within a 100ft, at faster speeds, e.g. 200 KIAS in my Aerostar the AI is actually easier to maintain altitude with. Roughly a 1/2 degree of change produces a climb rate of 500FPM.
    So the real answer is. It depends. When I flew an SR20, it was very easy to maintain within 100ft at the much slower speeds.

    6. Do ipads ever fail, such as batteries running down? Have you ever had a battery fail in a real chart?

    Never had batteries fail on paper, but I have had them rip, tear and that is even worse. I have a charger in my plane for the iPad, easy to plug in. I also have a backup tablet and phone. I can say this though, applying scotch tape to a paper sectional to put it back together is a lot harder then plugging in a table.
    Lastly, I like to fly at night. I have had batteries fail a flashlight in a flight, and the dome light bulb burned out. Thank goodness for the table to display the charts

    7. Is it legal for a pilot to fly with no real charts?, keeping in mind the rule about "having all information".

    Yes. I have more information on my tablets then you will ever have with your paper. And I can get to it much faster.

    8. If you are taking a flight test, the instructor may "fail" an engine and you are expected to make an emergency landing.
    If you are taking a flight test, with an ipad. but without real charts, and the instructor "fails" (turns off) your ipad, how do you navigate, and or fly into an airport or an ifr approach?

    You use your backup device, go to an alternate that is VMC, and the my DE did take away my tablet on the IFR checkride and on my multi IR checkride. In fact, she took away the MFD with the charts, the tablet and my phone. At that point I declared a "mock" emergency and went for radar vectors to land.
    Now with you vaunted paper binder, the DE spills coffee on the binder. Since you likely have the Jeppessen binder, the paper is so thin to save weight and space it will come aprt. How do you land? What do you do?

    FYI, depending on the software package. IFR and Sectionals for the whole USA run between $50-100 bucks a year on tablets. This is a lot cheaper then the paper subscription I had before. Another benefit to the tablet solution, once a month open the application and click download. Done, all updated. Compare that to the paper solution of adding/removing individual pages each month. What a PITA that was.

    Tim

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