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Thread: Charts or iPads?

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  1. #1

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    Charts or iPads?

    On the topic of Flying into Controlled airports, I wrote about having a sectional, that is a real chart.
    Another pilot disagreed and pointed out that with an ipad one could have every Ifr chart and approach chart as well as vfr sectionals and wac on the tablet.

    So, here are a few questions for him or others that promote the iPad over charts.

    1. How long has it been since you flew outside of the area on your local WAC chart?
    2. How many actual Ifr approaches did you make this year?
    3. How long has it been since you made an actual Ifr approach outside your local state/area where you needed ifr charts from another part of the country?
    4. A sectional chart is roughly 2 x3 feet per side, so usually to show a state and more, and covers a good bit of area. How big is the screen on the iPad? Is it about 3x3 inches?
    5. Is it easier to control the attitude of a plane when you can see the whole horizon out the window or easier when you are flying blind on just a 2 1/2 inch attitude indicator?
    6. Do ipads ever fail, such as batteries running down? Have you ever had a battery fail in a real chart?
    7. Is it legal for a pilot to fly with no real charts?, keeping in mind the rule about "having all information".
    8. If you are taking a flight test, the instructor may "fail" an engine and you are expected to make an emergency landing.
    If you are taking a flight test, with an ipad. but without real charts, and the instructor "fails" (turns off) your ipad, how do you navigate, and or fly into an airport or an ifr approach?


    Now, I can see the advantages of having an iPad as a helpful addition, and I might even get one this year and maybe learn to use it, but I also see some disadvantages of it vs. real charts.
    For a charter or airline pilot who actually needs charts from all over the country it might be good. For most of us costs may also be and issue. An ipad with a chart subscirption might run $500 and for that price one can get 50 sectionals.
    Last edited by Bill Greenwood; 01-01-2014 at 09:26 PM.

  2. #2
    rwanttaja's Avatar
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    Since I fly open cockpit, I sit on my chart to keep it from blowing away. This would be uncomfortable, with an Ipad. :-)

    Ron Wanttaja

  3. #3
    zaitcev's Avatar
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    But I'm sure that a man who built an ejection seat for his FlyBaby is fully capable of rigging up something as simple as a craddle for iPad.

  4. #4
    rwanttaja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zaitcev View Post
    But I'm sure that a man who built an ejection seat for his FlyBaby is fully capable of rigging up something as simple as a cradle for iPad.
    Don't have room, with the espresso machine and the microwave for the popcorn... :-)

    Ron Wanttaja

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by rwanttaja View Post
    Since I fly open cockpit, I sit on my chart to keep it from blowing away. This would be uncomfortable, with an Ipad. :-)

    Ron Wanttaja

    I, too, fly open cockpit, and I, too, sit on my chart to keep it from blowing away. I've never been able to figure out how to read the chart while it's secure under my butt, though. :0

    OTOH, I have no problem navigating with Foreflight on my iPhone, which I have clipped to the instrument panel...

  6. #6
    rwanttaja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Boatright View Post
    I, too, fly open cockpit, and I, too, sit on my chart to keep it from blowing away. I've never been able to figure out how to read the chart while it's secure under my butt, though. :0
    New Ap, called "Smartbutt". :-)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Boatright View Post
    OTOH, I have no problem navigating with Foreflight on my iPhone, which I have clipped to the instrument panel...
    Paranoid as I am, I'd hate to have to try to secure an Ipad when I stopped somewhere, and it's a bit too bulky to carry around. However, in lieu of a gold watch for a 30-year-anniversary, my employer gave me a Galaxy Tab. About the same size as an Ipad mini. Been contemplating potential uses for it in the airplane, though I'm cautious about full-sunlight visibility. Don't think it's got a GPS in it, so it'd have to be passive navigation. But at least I could pull it out and tuck it into a pocket.

    Space is often at a premium in a single-seater, though, and I'd probably have to rig up some sort of folding arm so I could push it away while getting in and out.

    WWII Navy airplanes often had pull-out chart tables at the bottom (or even the middle) of the instrument panel.

    Name:  TBM_panel2.jpg
Views: 3573
Size:  71.5 KB

    I've been tempted to try add something like this to the Fly Baby... it's a free run for ten inches or so under the panel, so I could put in a short pull-out table there. There's a potential for interfering with the stick, though (especially if something broke), and my knee room is tight enough already.

    Have to hold out for Google Glass.

    Current project is attempting to build a headset out of Romex cable and a gooseneck LED lamp. Was using an oil can, originally, but the flex spout was too short. Figure my total cost will be under hundred bucks, for a slimline in-the-ear headset that can be worn under a leather helmet without modification.

    Ron "Cheap is my middle name" Wanttaja
    Last edited by rwanttaja; 01-01-2014 at 03:55 PM. Reason: Whim

  7. #7

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    With the correct options turned "on", I find WingX on my iPad Mini or iPhone (I really like the iPhone's readability) is almost as good as a chart. In a perfect world, I'd always have the appropriate (current) paper charts because I think my situational awareness is better when I use a chart.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by rwanttaja View Post
    New Ap, called "Smartbutt". :-)


    ...
    Space is often at a premium in a single-seater, though, and I'd probably have to rig up some sort of folding arm so I could push it away while getting in and out.

    WWII Navy airplanes often had pull-out chart tables at the bottom (or even the middle) of the instrument panel.

    Name:  TBM_panel2.jpg
Views: 3573
Size:  71.5 KB

    I've been tempted to try add something like this to the Fly Baby... it's a free run for ten inches or so under the panel, so I could put in a short pull-out table there. There's a potential for interfering with the stick, though (especially if something broke), and my knee room is tight enough already.
    ...
    Ron "Cheap is my middle name" Wanttaja

    Here's a Pietenpol version: http://www.westcoastpiet.com/images/...s/IMG_3917.JPG

  9. #9

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    Miemsed, thanks for trying to answer my questions. It sounds like you, unlike me or many other pilots, really do fly ifr and many places not local, and do use the electronic aids.

    One thing I'd like to know is how while flying an iLS approach you can divert your attention to picking up an ipad, turning it on, ( any warm up time) and bringing up the correct approach chart.
    I stay ifr legal, ( my insurance co requires it) and I find it takes a lot of concentration and accurate flying to stay on course; I certainly could never divert my attention in mid approach to switch to the ipad. I think I would have full needles off center pretty quickly. I realize that the ipad failing in mid approach in the real world would not be likely.
    Last edited by Bill Greenwood; 01-01-2014 at 09:13 PM.

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by rwanttaja View Post
    ... gave me a Galaxy Tab. a
    Tab2 has gps, so worth searching your unit. Great free app for android is avare from the google play store. I use it in a tab2 10.1 inch screen. which is better, paper or plastic? Which do you prefer, phillips head or straight slot? Tool selection depends on the job. Your mileage may vary.

    P.S. ladies and gentlemen, we are all grownups here. No need to guess, plead, b.s. each other about whether electronic charts are legal for pt91 ops. If you don't know, your last couple flight reviews were deficient. The FAA AC was issued in 2007. Go tell your CFI you were not listening, get it re-explained.
    Last edited by Mike M; 01-02-2014 at 08:34 AM.

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