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Thread: Annual Inspection runout during engine Overhaul

  1. #1

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    Annual Inspection runout during engine Overhaul

    I am an A&P, I overhauled the engine on my Cessna during which time the Annual Inspection ran out.
    My IA wants me to bring the plane to his shop for the Annual inspection. The annual was due by the end of September.
    Now November 6. Are there provisions in the regulations that allow me to fly the out of annual aircraft to the IA's shop or do I have to get a ferry Permit?
    The engine overhaul is complete and ground test runs have been completed successfully and I have signed off the engine work.

  2. #2
    Matt Gonitzke's Avatar
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    You will need a ferry permit.

  3. #3

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    If you have not done one, take a look at - http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/...rry_permit.pdf

    Best of luck,

    Wes
    N78PS

  4. #4

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    That is the purpose of a ferry permit.

  5. #5

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    Thanks to those you replied.
    Found an IA that will come to my location and do an owner assisted annual inspection.
    Much simpler process.
    BD

  6. #6

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    That's the best idea

  7. #7

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    Nice thing about owning an EAB. I need no IA to do a Condition inspection and nothing on my airplane is ever logged as airworthy. Also not as much liability on the A&P's part for he will never log in my books that anything on my airplane is airworthy. Its in a condition for safe operation. But A&P's still run from doing a Condition inspection on an EAB. I will never understand this.

  8. #8

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    1600vw, I think that you misunderstand what the A&P is doing by signing your aircraft's log at the end of a condition inspection. That signature in a legal sense, means that the A&P does indeed certify that the aircraft is airworthy. Using the words "in condition for safe operation", in a strict legal sense, is another way of saying "airworthy". So the A&P accepts responsibility and liability by signing off that condition inspection. That is likely why some A&P's are not comfortable doing those inspections as they are not knowledgeable or comfortable with the airworthiness standards for that class of aircraft.

    The EAA has a great article online at - http://www.eaa.org/experimenter/arti...04_darside.asp - that tries to explain why the FAA has the individual doing an annual inspection on a certificated aircraft vs a condition inspection on an E-AB, use different language in the aircraft log. The reasoning is typical government bureaucrat, but the end result in both cases is that the individual who does a condition inspection or an annual inspection takes responsibility for the mechanical state of the aircraft at the time that the inspection is done. For better or worse, that is what a plaintiff's lawyer will assert after a crash.

    So I assume that you take an airworthy ship to your condition inspector and at the end of its yearly inspection the signature endorses that it is indeed airworthy.

    Best of luck,

    Wes
    N78PS

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1600vw View Post
    But A&P's still run from doing a Condition inspection on an EAB. I will never understand this.
    Tony, most A&P's are trained at a Part 147 school where the curriculum does not not address EAB aircraft. Students are drilled and tested on regs applicable to aircraft with standard a/w certificates, not special a/w certificates. They can quote the legal definition for "airworthy" in their sleep, so they only know one standard for return to service and they know how to apply Part 43. Until one is educated on the differences, what you describe should not be unexpected. I'll wager at one time, you didn't know the difference either. ;-)
    Last edited by martymayes; 11-09-2013 at 09:11 PM.

  10. #10
    cub builder's Avatar
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    As an A&P, I simply don't want to be on the hook for an airplane where everything is suspect. I'll do them for builders/owners/planes that I know well with a well proven design, but if some Joe walks in off the street and wants me to do an inspection on an Experimental he has just purchased that has an engine configuration I have never seen before, or has been maintaining and modifying for the last year... sorry, but I don't want to spend my time looking for the gotchas having to do with design or inferior workmanship and I don't want to deal with his family after he does more modifications to the plane and kills himself. If he wants me to do his annual, he's going to have to deal with me looking at his work throughout the year and will have to comply with my conventions on maintenance.

    A few years ago I completed an annual on an EAB plane for a friend, then a week later he promptly planted the plane in the ground. Fortunately, he survived with minor injuries, but in his first call to me he said "The engine failed during cruise flight", which left me with that sinking feeling that despite him being a friend and me doing a very thorough annual, I am about to be sued. Later I learned that it lost power because he had the fuel selector on an empty tank and was so panicked that he failed to move the selector the other tank when the engine shut down in cruise flight. When he made his first call to me, he hadn't fessed up to the FAA about running out of fuel yet.

    Think through that scenario, then think about whether you would want to start putting your signature in log books for planes that are designed, built and maintained by amateurs. I don't want to be on the hook for someone else's mistakes. Not to pick on you 1600VW, but I'll use you as an example. If your plane came to me for an annual, how do I know whether your engine has a cast or forged crank in it? How do I know if it was assembled correctly? Would I be willing to sign my name to an engine with a single ignition (I have no idea whether yours is single or dual)? What specs do I set the timing to and that is based on who's data? Just because you deem it as good enough doesn't mean your heirs won't decide to clean out my retirement accounts if something should happen to you in flight. Because of the higher crash and fatality rate with EAB aircraft, insurance carriers often times will not cover shops if they work on EAB aircraft. While I will do some EAB aircraft, I am very picky about which ones I do, and the likelihood of me doing one for someone that just shows up and asks is almost nil.

    -CubBuilder

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