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Thread: Sorry, you're too fat to be a pilot. Love, FAA

  1. #21

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    "If one is healthy, I don't see anything to worry about."

    I think that this statement illustrates a lot of how we allow regulations to make it harder and harder to fly and do many of the other things that we value.

    First they make individuals who have a BMI of 40 and make them do $2000 testing. Then they lower the threshold to 35. Then 30. Then 25. In their eyes you are not healthy anymore. But having let this go on, not supporting the early "victims" of this bad policy, when they get to you, you won't get any support when you are standing there crying "but I'm healthy!".

    I didn't get it when I was much younger, but now I get what Ben Franklin meant when he famously stated "We must, indeed, all hang together or, most assuredly, we shall all hang separately.".

    We all need to support pushing back on this proposal hard.

    Best of luck,

    Wes
    N78PS

  2. #22

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    If this issue ever comes up for comments, here is an example of a "plus sized" pilot James B. McGovern who functioned well under stress despite his alleged obesety. Nick-named Earthquake McGoon because of his six foot, 260 lb frame. "Earthquake" was an Air America pilot supporting the defense of Dien Bien Phu when he was hit hard. Despite his large waistline and a tendancy to snore, he got his crippled bird 75 miles to Laos where he crashed and was killed. He had no CPAP on board.


    I remember his character appearing in either Terry and the Pirates or Steve Canyon, Sunday comics of the era.


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_B._McGovern,_Jr.


    Bob

  3. #23
    WeaverJ3Cub's Avatar
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    Totally agree Wes. Well said. We need to remember Nartin Niemöllers quote.


    First they came for the communists,
    and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.

    Then they came for the socialists,
    and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a socialist.

    Then they came for the trade unionists,
    and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.

    Then they came for me,
    and there was no one left to speak for me.
    Classic airplanes at historic Red Stewart Airfield, Waynesville, OH: http://s1075.beta.photobucket.com/us...ic%20Airplanes

  4. #24
    WeaverJ3Cub's Avatar
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    And they plan to lower it to a BMI of 20?!?!?

    I'm 23 and a regular runner of half marathons and 5k races and at 6' 1" my BMI is 23.1. There is no way I'm overweight by anyone's standard.

    And it really rankles with me how they didn't issue a NPRM or anything....just popped it out on everyone. Are they trying to see if we're awake? I guess they found out.
    Classic airplanes at historic Red Stewart Airfield, Waynesville, OH: http://s1075.beta.photobucket.com/us...ic%20Airplanes

  5. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Dingley View Post
    If this issue ever comes up for comments, here is an example of a "plus sized" pilot James B. McGovern who functioned well under stress despite his alleged obesety. Nick-named Earthquake McGoon because of his six foot, 260 lb frame. "Earthquake" was an Air America pilot supporting the defense of Dien Bien Phu when he was hit hard. Despite his large waistline and a tendancy to snore, he got his crippled bird 75 miles to Laos where he crashed and was killed. He had no CPAP on board.
    Six foot tall and 260 lbs gives him a BMI of 35.3, so even he would be safe from this new initiative. He would have to weigh over 295 pounds to get a BMI over 40.
    Last edited by FloridaJohn; 11-22-2013 at 07:36 AM.

  6. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by WeaverJ3Cub View Post
    And it really rankles with me how they didn't issue a NPRM or anything....just popped it out on everyone.
    The Federal Air Surgeon is within his bounds by issuing a medical standard. And they didn't just "pop it out" on everyone, this has been in discussion for several yrs, the impetus for action was in 2008 when both pilots on a Go! Airlines flight from Honolulu to Hilo, Hawaii fell asleep and overflew their destination. I don't necessarily agree with the methodology and they are only targeting the highest risk group for now. Just like HBP, or diabetes, if someone has OSA, they need to get treated for long term health reasons, whether or not they can fly airplanes should be a concern that is distant second.

    Progressive lowering of the BMI standard will probably self destruct like the National Health Care website. CAMI just can't handle that kind of traffic.

    Oh, and it should be clear(er) now why the class 3 medical exemption has hit a brick wall at the Federal Air Surgeons door.

  7. #27
    WeaverJ3Cub's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by martymayes View Post
    Progressive lowering of the BMI standard will probably self destruct like the National Health Care website.
    I have to respectfully disagree. Once a government rule/law/bill is passed or implemented the chances of it getting pulled back are nearly nil. To use your example, the PTB will just ratchet down further and say that this proves that we need a single-payer system.

    If it does self-destruct, it's a question of how much it takes out when it blows up. Sometimes the effect is the same as the originally feared consequences.
    Classic airplanes at historic Red Stewart Airfield, Waynesville, OH: http://s1075.beta.photobucket.com/us...ic%20Airplanes

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by WeaverJ3Cub View Post
    I have to respectfully disagree. Once a government rule/law/bill is passed or implemented the chances of it getting pulled back are nearly nil.
    Truer words have never been spoken. Just look at EPA.

    They had largely accomplished their original mission by the mid 1980s. Instead of disbanding, or at least downsizing, they have continued to tighten air and water quality standards, justifying their continual expansion.

    This principle applies to every government agency. There is simply no way that a large, powerful bureaucracy is ever going to voluntarily shrink, or even remain static.

  9. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by FloridaJohn View Post
    Six foot tall and 260 lbs gives him a BMI of 35.3, so even he would be safe from this new initiative. He would have to weigh over 295 pounds to get a BMI over 40.
    Good catch John.


    Pictures of the era (Life Magazine) showed him < 300. I'm guessing that an Air America physical of the mid 50's conducted who-knows-where would let you weigh what ever you want. Didn't prevent him from flying an amazing number of C-119 hours daily.


    Lets keep our eye on the ball. Fatigue is the major reason for sleepy pilots. There is a reason why FBOs have a dark room full of Lazy-Boys. It aint for the folks flying flying their personal planes. You may hear corporate/Commercial pilots use the term "safety nap."




    Bob

  10. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by WLIU View Post
    "If one is healthy, I don't see anything to worry about."

    I think that this statement illustrates a lot of how we allow regulations to make it harder and harder to fly and do many of the other things that we value.
    The Federal Air Surgeon is simply telling folks if they want to get a medical and fly they need to shape up - step away from the donut box in the pilot's lounge, put some of the beer back in the fridge and put down the cigs. Very early on in this game I realized that holding on to a medical is directly related to lifestyle choices. Have to be smart with your health and not leave it to chance. If one is healthy, they have nothing to worry about.

    First they make individuals who have a BMI of 40 and make them do $2000 testing.
    Doesn't have to cost $2k but at any rate, YES! it's a reasonable test for OSA because the relation to obesity. If there is a 95% chance someone has OSA based on the numbers, they should be tested. (I've had expensive medical testing done when the probability of disease was much, much lower).

    Then they lower the threshold to 35. Then 30. Then 25. In their eyes you are not healthy anymore. But having let this go on, not supporting the early "victims" of this bad policy, when they get to you, you won't get any support when you are standing there crying "but I'm healthy!".
    Let's see where the BMI goes before making predictions. I don't see it going lower than mid '30's.

    We all need to support pushing back on this proposal hard.
    There's nine other disqualifying medical conditions. If one has a disqualifying medical condition and goes for a SI, they will probably have to submit ot a battery of tests costing thousands of dollars. OSA is just another disqualifying condition. I guess denial only goes so far and that's the reason some folks are getting wrapped around the axle.

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