This is not cheap, appears as it would save hunreds of hours high-performance-tape

[rwanttaja]

Glues CAN work for certain things.

News to me.

Ron Wanttaja
1981 Bowers Fly Baby

[Victor Bravo]

The Schreder HP-18 was a popular all metal homebuilt glider that had bonded wing skins...

I mentioned the HP's in my post. I owned an HP-18 project for a short time, and the reason it was a project was because the skins had de-bonded from the ribs, and it was finally sold because of this very reason.

I have a friend who is a chemist and aircraft builder. He informed me that there IS a way to do structural bonding of aluminum. You have to use a SPECIFIC, PARTICULAR formulation of chemical treatment, which changes the chemical composition of the metal surface, which makes a surface that will bond to epoxy. But this is NOT off-the-shelf Alodine or Anodize.

And it is still not a 100% strength bond like wood and Resorcinol.

[jjhoneck]

News to me.

Ron Wanttaja
1981 Bowers Fly Baby

Heh. Just be sure not to post about it on certificated aircraft forums! You'll never hear the end of it.

[jjhoneck]

I mentioned the HP's in my post. I owned an HP-18 project for a short time, and the reason it was a project was because the skins had de-bonded from the ribs, and it was finally sold because of this very reason.

I have a friend who is a chemist and aircraft builder. He informed me that there IS a way to do structural bonding of aluminum. You have to use a SPECIFIC, PARTICULAR formulation of chemical treatment, which changes the chemical composition of the metal surface, which makes a surface that will bond to epoxy. But this is NOT off-the-shelf Alodine or Anodize.

And it is still not a 100% strength bond like wood and Resorcinol.

Doesn't one of the current 4-place Bede kitplanes have the skins wrapped around and glued to the ribs? I think they are only physically attached at the trailing edge.

[Jim Hann]

Doesn't one of the current 4-place Bede kitplanes have the skins wrapped around and glued to the ribs? I think they are only physically attached at the trailing edge.

BD-4C, we have one going together in our Chapter. ProSeal I believe!

[Greg Wilson]

"if time is money, sealing joints and preventing chaffing and rivets getting loose this may be a fantastic investment. window seals, air ducts, So many uses come to mind." hoghead does not say to replace rivets in all applications or to even replace all rivets only one-third of them perhaps. The statement/question is one of possible time savings and other (sealing) benefits. There is NO structural reason for "mold-less" composite but it was great for Rutan ( He has stated the reason was simply time savings). Loss of strength is not a problem IF the joint still meets the design need. To those who insist that every thing must be "aircraft" quality by design decree, by a type certificated aircraft and pay an A&P to maintain it for you, don't say everything must be "approved" T.C.,PMA, TSO,etc. and then bitch about the cost as the reason to be experimental. Experimental-AB is to experiment,safely but experiment none the less. I have worked on "bonded" aircraft Grumman American and Lear Jets, yes they have problems but the "glue" still works. The Grumman has an AD requiring #3 rivets to be installed at a wide spacing to serve as a "rip-stop" on the trailing edge it does not replace the bonding for structural strength. Greg Wilson A&P since 1982

[WeaverJ3Cub]

Am I seriously reading someone advocating using tape to replace rivets and structural fasteners??? *facepalm

To the OP....for one, airplanes flex in ways that boats don't, so that really isn't a valid comparison. Just look at pictures of the Reno racer Czech Mate's wing flexing under the g load. Your average RV is subject to nowhere near that load for sure, but I guarantee you that stuff is still moving in ways you don't realize.

[hogheadv2]

Am I seriously reading someone advocating using tape to replace rivets and structural fasteners??? *facepalm

To the OP....for one, airplanes flex in ways that boats don't, so that really isn't a valid comparison. Just look at pictures of the Reno racer Czech Mate's wing flexing under the g load. Your average RV is subject to nowhere near that load for sure, but I guarantee you that stuff is still moving in ways you don't realize.

Really, your building a Reno Racer! Keep your eyes covered with the facepalm, while your at it plug your ears.
This may keep you from taking a comment intended for people who have sense to use materials in a safe and responsible manner. I'm really sure most of us are not looking past 9+ G's. If they are, this forum is not the place to find that kind of performance.

[Aaron Novak]

Really, your building a Reno Racer! Keep your eyes covered with the facepalm, while your at it plug your ears.
This may keep you from taking a comment intended for people who have sense to use materials in a safe and responsible manner. I'm really sure most of us are not looking past 9+ G's. If they are, this forum is not the place to find that kind of performance.

Why not? To me a forum is a place for those that know more, to share with those that know less, hence education and the swapping of ideas. The internet is already full of forums with a group of people that know little, patting each other on the back and telling each other how great they are. Lets not have another one please. When someone presents something that to the trained eye seems like a bad idea, they should be called out on it, and given reasons why its a bad idea. There is nothing wrong with tearing apart a bad idea, thats what engineering is, what was done here, and what homebuilding is about.

[Matt Gonitzke]

This may keep you from taking a comment intended for people who have sense to use materials in a safe and responsible manner.

How ironic. If you're so knowledgeable about aircraft structural design and analysis, how come you can't refute any of the flaws that multiple people have pointed out in your idea?