The answer with LSA and the recreational license ...yada yada was it was supposed to be a saviour because it was cheaper. The sad answer is in most cases, it is NOT. Flight instruction wise, the problem is the time consuming (and hence expensive) part you have to learn even as a Sport Pilot. Cross country is a breeze once you can operate in the pattern. As shown, the aircraft (at least in the litigious US) aren't substantially cheaper, especially compared to the used conventional market.
Yeah, the numbers of ignorant owners and pilots were pretty sad. They ignored all the good LSA airplanes and hoped for this abortion to make good, and why?Originally Posted by Floatsflyer
Remember that corporate resources are composed of people. Jack Pelton marshalled corporate resources to support the 162 against the collective will of the said resources, and was kicked out. If you are a mid-level manager at Cessna, would you rather work on a program with market in 33 million (!) in 3 years or sales, or a program in billions? Just think about it. Your career sense answers the question. Once the top turned hostile to Skycatcher, the program turned into a ghetto for losers and shriveled quickly. So much for "corporate resources".
In contrast, a smaller company whose fortunes are wedded to small airplanes has a much better chance of a go for it, from the human resources standpoint. They may not have the capital resources, unfortunately.
I think a great portion of the “potential success” is the attitude of the users…
In my area we have 2 flight schools. One is a long established full service FBO and they have a Skycatcher as well as 7AC Champ for training and a C-172 G1000.
The Champ is Rarely flown ($85/hr), the C-162 ($115/hr) is booked for 3 or 4 flights per week and the C-172 ($150/hr) is lucky to fly once a month!
NEXT DOOR is another FBO that does sales, service & flight training only. They have 2 LSA aircraft available ($115 & $109/hr). But both aircraft fly 5 to 7 times a week!
What is the difference? - ATTITUDE!
The LSA Dealer has been in this from the beginning and is positive and enthusiastic.
The other FBO is like walking into a funeral home.
I was once referred to there as ’...the guy who flies the Skycatcher’
(they want 12 hours in type for the Champ and while I have hundreds in other tailwheel, it isn’t worth $1600+ for me)
If the 3rd Class Medical is eliminated, it won’t be the end of the LSA but it sure will be another rock thrown at it!
Given the choice of well performing LSA against some worn out ramp wreck...
Except, it's not a choice between a "well-performing LSA and some worn out ramp wreck". For the price of a newer LSA you can purchase a four-seater in very good condition. And let's be honest, "well-performing" when describing most LSAs is quite the stretch.
Ryan Winslow
EAA 525529
Stinson 108-1 "Big Red", RV-7 under construction
Undoubtedly it's possible to run a school with LSAs. There's a Remos GX for rent at KSAF that's booked solid weeks ahead. They train both Private and Sport in it. That Remos was $135k new and the owner says it easily covers the terms of its financing. If you can make that Skycatcher run 200 hours a month, it will break even even at the new inflated price. It's just that most of Skycatcher buyers already had plans for the $109k price and sudden re-price shook them up.
A Sport Pilot or Recreational Pilot cannot fly any 4 seat aircraft... A 3rd Class Medical is the price of admission to that seat.
High power cruise is 130 mph (115K) in the LSA and there are FEW 4 seat aircraft that are capible of that, not to mention the 6 gph of Mogas
It is a big sky out there, there is room for all.
Reading some of the replies above, a few thoughts occur to me.
One reason that Cessna got involved with the Skycatcher and Piper formerly with the Cadet was to get some sort of brand identification. The thought was that a student pilot would want to stick with the brand he or she first learned in.
If there is no step-up to a four seat version of an LSA, then there will be no brand affiliation when it comes time to move up. The Skyhawk and Cherokee lines are not in competition with the LSA manufacturers for that market.
A student CAN get an LSA, a recreational, or a private pilot license in an LSA aircraft. Therefore, it makes sense for a flight school to invest in an LSA for its initial entry students. IF, that is, they believe they will have enough initial entry students to make the payments on the airplane without having to use the same airframe for both initial entry and instrument training.
It is just my personal opinion, but a full glass cockpit for initial entry is a bad idea. We want them to keep their eyes outside the airplane as much as possible. But then again, I may be out of touch on that...I think that all pilots should get some glider (sail plane) time, too.
A Recreational Pilot can fly a fixed gear, 4 seat 180hp airplane which covers the typical Cherokee/C-172 class of airplane. They are limited to carrying only one passenger. And yes, they do need a medical. But here again, if some of the proponents of getting rid of the 3rd class for recreational purposes would be willing to compromise........
I think the flat panel displays are great and absolutely essential in going forward, as are good instructors. Ever since I have been instructing (35 yrs) students want to look at the panel too much. So you don't let them.
It still gets back to my original post they're too expensive for the average 'sport type' pilot and there's basically no utility other than boring holes in the sky and I can do that with my $30,000 Aeronca.
If God had intended man to fly He would have given us more money!
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