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Thread: The average person

  1. #11

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    I'd also like to point out that right now there are a handful of planes on Barnstormers for under $10,000 including a Fisher 404, Fisher Horizon, Smith Miniplane, Quicksilver, Titan Tornado, Baby Ace, Himax, Teenie Two, etc.

    There's also always the option of a partial ownership. You could buy a Cessna 150 for $20,000 and sell 3 shares for $5,000 each. Store it at a tie down for (around here) $110/month ($28/person/month), with an annual for $1,000-$2,000. Thats ~$600 /person/year fixed cost + insurance ($800?) + fuel (5 gal/hr @ $7/gal).

    For $3,000 / year you can fly 45 hrs. Between 4 people, even an engine replacement approaches reasonable ~$15,000 - 20,000 = $3,750 - $5,000 per person.
    Last edited by skier; 09-12-2013 at 10:58 AM.

  2. #12

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    Lots of good responses here. Something else that was brought to my attention today as a reason people aren't learning to fly-fear of failure and/or lack of confidence. I hear that, along with the cost issue as being the biggest reasons. However, I find lots of people would fly, but since they doubt their ability, they buy expensive cars instead. Lets face it, nearly everybody drives so buying the car is easier than the discipline needed to fly.

  3. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by skier View Post
    A large percentage of people (at least in the US) can afford flying if they really want it, but most don't want it enough.
    This is completely true, even though we often hear 'cost' is one of the major inhibitors to more people flying. In reality, it's not.

  4. #14
    EAA Staff / Moderator Timm Bogenhagen's Avatar
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    Ultralight and other light N-number aircraft are a great way to own and fly at minimal expense, and maximum fun. Like has already been said, www.barnstormers.com has alot of planes for under $10,000. Just do it
    Have Fun & Fly Safe!
    Timm
    EAA 379292
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    HiMAX - in progress

  5. #15

    true but . . .

    Quote Originally Posted by skier View Post
    I'd also like to point out that right now there are a handful of planes on Barnstormers for under $10,000 including a Fisher 404, Fisher Horizon, Smith Miniplane, Quicksilver, Titan Tornado, Baby Ace, Himax, Teenie Two, etc.

    There's also always the option of a partial ownership. You could buy a Cessna 150 for $20,000 and sell 3 shares for $5,000 each. Store it at a tie down for (around here) $110/month ($28/person/month), with an annual for $1,000-$2,000. Thats ~$600 /person/year fixed cost + insurance ($800?) + fuel (5 gal/hr @ $7/gal).

    For $3,000 / year you can fly 45 hrs. Between 4 people, even an engine replacement approaches reasonable ~$15,000 - 20,000 = $3,750 - $5,000 per person.

    While I agree this makes it easier to own and fly. The problem then comes down to who gets to fly it and when. If I'm tight for cash, I'm probably a working Joe. This means weekends only. Then I have 3 other guys to schedule around (not to mention other family things on weekends). Owning my own motorcycle is far more attainable and usable. Yes I need a special license, so what. With a plane I need to BFR every couple of years plus medicals. Yes these cost are actually not that much but everything adds up. Plus aircraft also required thing that many other hobbies do not. Again expenses. Seriously, add up a weekend going off-roading vs flying off for the $100 burger.

    That all said - if there's a will, there's a way

  6. #16

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    Aircraft are also very limited use items for most people. While I can fit about a week or two worth of groceries on my motorcycle and haul them straight to my front door I can't accomplish such a task with an airplane unless I live on an airfield and I happen to find a grocery store close to another airport.

    Aircraft are toys even more so than a motorcycle and I manage to use a motorcycle as my only form of transportation besides the Hurricane.

  7. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by depkoonce View Post
    I am still, however, nagged by the notion that at least 20 hours of flight training for sport is a bit overkill if that's what I'll be flying.
    You'll probably be able to comfortably and safely transition into an ultralight after you solo the Light Sport you are learning in. By the time you solo that aircraft, you'll know enough of the flying basics. The transition will have to be done carefully as an ultralight will not have the same feel because they are...well...so ultra-light. But you don't need to finish Sport Pilot training to transition into an ultralight.

    The difference between your solo hours and the hours to finish a Sport Pilot license are the cost you'll need to spend to ever carry a passenger. That's the way to look at it. And the difference between the Sport and Private is the cost, essentially, to carry 2 more passengers for most Private pilots.

    So my suggestion is to sit down and seriously define what "flying" means to you. If you envision flying across the state with your significant other, you'll need at least a Light Sport.

    If it's going out to airport on nice Friday night and flying around the local area alone and practicing some landings as a way of relaxing and unwinding, then you can do that in an ultralight.

    Once you define it generally, there will be more detailed choices you'll make. If you like sailboarding and motorcycle riding, camping and being near nature, you'd probably be more into an open ultralight design than the enclosed cockpit of some ultralight designs. Just as people are enthralled with the concept of building something while others want to just "buy and fly".

    40 year ago I both got my Private license and learned to hang glide at 17. I discovered that hang gliding was more my concept of "flying" than carrying 3 people around in a 172. Consequently, 40 years later I have 10x more logbook time in ultralights than I do in things with N-numbers. I've continued to fly things with N-numbers. I've owned or been part owner in a bunch of Cessna's and Pipers. But if I had to choose one type of flying for the other and they both cost the same, I'd personally give up flying Cessnas before giving up flying ultralights. That's probably because my concept of flying IS going out on a nice Friday night and just enjoying being up in the air and motoring around to relax. I enjoy doing that type of flying in an ultralight more than in anything else.

    "Flying" is a word with a lot of different variations. Once you determine what YOUR definition of "flying" is for you, you may be surprised about how affordable it is. Flying is unaffordable when people spend money getting licenses they never use a lot and buying planes they never fly a lot.

    The EAA forums are the right place to ask for some input on questions like yours.

    Hope the thoughts help.

    -Buzz
    Last edited by Buzz; 09-15-2013 at 12:59 PM.

  8. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Downs View Post

    Aircraft are toys even more so than a motorcycle and I manage to use a motorcycle as my only form of transportation besides the Hurricane.

    Years ago my wife then, my x now, told me I was riding my motorcycle for transportation. I told her it would kill me for now I am riding to get from point a to point b. That is just what happened too. I divorced the Bit##

    Back to subject at hand, I just wanted to share that.

  9. #19

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    I don't get it. That sentence didn't make any sense to me.


    I was married for a few years. Never again.

  10. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Downs View Post
    I don't get it. That sentence didn't make any sense to me.


    I was married for a few years. Never again.
    It read sort of like a "TMI" moment to me.

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