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Thread: CIVA Known Proposals for 2014

  1. #1

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    CIVA Known Proposals for 2014

    Since I haven't seen it appear here yet, the proposed CIVA Advanced and Unlimited Knowns for 2014 are available at

    http://www.fai.org/civa-documents

    Go to Meetings, select 2013, and there they are for your viewing/flying entertainment. Any input from Advanced/Unlimited pilots should go to Mike Heuer before the November meeting.

    Cheers
    -Martin

  2. #2
    RetroAcro's Avatar
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    Interesting...never seen a vertical up snap in Advanced (Proposal E). I vote for Proposal D. Thoughts based on flying a stock 180 hp Pitts S-1S:

    Proposal A - good energy/flow except for the line into figure 5 which would require a big slow down. I don't like the snap after the roll on the 45 down due to the potential for a higher speed snap than I'd like in the Pitts. I'd rather see a well-placed outside snap introduced into Advanced than a vertical up snap. For Figure 5 here, I'd rather do a 1/2 outside snap followed by a full aileron roll than the 1/2 aileron roll followed by the full inside snap. As drawn, it presents no particular challenge other than snap speed concerns for biplanes. Fine for monoplanes, though.

    Proposal B - Figure 3 seems a little goofy, but not bad energy/flow otherwise.

    Proposal C - Good variety and challenge, but flying off Figure 3 clean would be hard in warm Wx.

    Proposal D - Good flow/energy, maybe just a little hard to round out the looping segment of Figure 6.

    Proposal E - Interesting introduction of the vertical up snap. That would be lots of fun to see in Advanced...especially from the judges line. Not sure I like it as an Advanced figure though. Requires me to fly my Pitts pretty hard to do a decent 3/4 up snap.

    Proposal F - Figure 1 is a very high energy figure for the Pitts and would be hard to fly round.

    Proposal G - Same issue as above for Figure 7. Would struggle with energy into the push into Figure 6 in warm Wx.

    Eric Sandifer
    Last edited by RetroAcro; 08-20-2013 at 09:12 PM.

  3. #3

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    I haven't flown any but your comments largely reflect my thoughts based on flying a stock S-2B (and I'm almost always in warm wx). I'm definitely not a fan of figure 5 in Proposal A.

    I think D would be my personal favorite, followed by B.

  4. #4

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    The latest versions of these proposals have been posted, along with comments from the Known Analysis Working Groups which gives an inkling as to which sequences are favored. The comments are an interesting read so it's worth revisiting (or visiting, if you haven't already).

  5. #5

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    CIVA has voted. The 2014 Knowns (Unlimited, Advanced, Int/Y52) are...

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    (Incidentally, I have no idea how well image embedding will turn out so, for the record, that's Unlimited proposal B, Advanced proposal B and Y52/Intermediate proposal A.)

    -Martin

  6. #6

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    For the IAC Known Programs for Primary, Sportsman, and Intermediate for 2014, you can see them through the IAC web site in the agenda package for the fall Board meeting.

    See you at the box,

    Wes
    N78PS

  7. #7
    RetroAcro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WLIU View Post
    For the IAC Known Programs for Primary, Sportsman, and Intermediate for 2014, you can see them through the IAC web site in the agenda package for the fall Board meeting.See you at the box, Wes N78PS
    Interesting change to the Primary sequence. I see in the table of contents a reference to "Primary RV / No spin sequences discussion", but didn't see any details related to that. Curious if there's a general concern about spins in Primary, or if the idea is to get more RV involvement via the removal of the spin, which I don't totally understand since RVs spin and recover normally, except for the RV-6 which has a high rotation rate and relatively delayed recovery once fully-developed. But competition spins do not reach this fully-developed state, and the other RV models (RV-3, 4, 7, and 8) have no spin quirks whatsoever.

  8. #8

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    I think the main rationale was to come up with a Primary sequence that had no downwind loop/half cuban and there wasn't an easy way to do that and keep the spin. Altitude loss from the spin may have been a secondary concern, too. Good catch on the table of contents. I'd be interested to hear if there are any further discussions around this.

  9. #9

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    "I see in the table of contents a reference to 'Primary RV / No spin sequences discussion', but didn't see any details"

    The agenda package speaks to the topics that they are planning to discuss. Unless you can speak to the board members before the meeting you and I are unlikely to know the motivations and details that will drive that discussion. At some point after the board meeting the minutes should be posted and we will find out something about the details of the issues. Jim Ward is the IAC Secretary. Jim used to be my neighbor and in fact I just exchanged e-mails with him. I will expect that Jim will be timely in posting the board meeting minutes.....

    I have more than a passing interest as a couple of my proposals for rules changes are on the agenda.

    Film at 11...

    Best of luck,

    Wes
    N78PS

  10. #10

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    We had more discussion this year within the selection committee than other years on all of the proposals. The Primary Sequence change was for two reasons, get a dialog going about where primary fits into IAC as well as getting rid of the downwind looping portions.

    I'm very happy with all of sequences this year. The Sportsman is challenging and will be fun to teach.

    Intermediate is Decathlon friendly which was my main concern.

    Now I have to work on the eight sided loop and up P loop push around with a roll on top for advanced. Whoohoo!!!!

    I'm looking forward to the 2014 season.

    Adam

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