Best ultralight to accumulate flight hours for under3K

[Lawrence]

Hello, I am almost done training to become a private pilot and am looking for a way to build the flight hours needed for higher ratings when I am done. I could never afford to rent a plane for hundreds of hours, but my instructor informed me that hours logged in ultralights can be counted towards those ratings, although he doesn't know a lot about ultralights himself. So I am basically looking for the best ultralight that I can build or buy within my admittedly very small budget. I would like to be able to say that I built it myself, but I don't have the experience to build something too complicated from scratch. I live in South Jersey so it needs to comply with FAR 103 so I can take off and land from the farm next door, unless someone knows of a way I would be allowed to do that with a two seater. It needs to have folding wings so that it can be easily stored and transported, and it would also be nice if I could get something that goes close to the maximum 55 knots so that I could log some cross country time without staying overnight... I know this is a really tall order, I am trying to do a lot with very little money or experience. But I know that if there is anyone that knows how this could be possible, they are probably lurking around here somewhere. Any advice or experience will be greatly appreciated.

[zaitcev]

According to Ron Levy, back in 2005,

FAA Order 8700.1, Volume 2, Chapter 1, page 1-46 and 1-47, paragraph 9.B. states, in its entirety, that:

“B. Logging Time. Unless the vehicle is type certificated as an aircraft in a category listed in FAR § 61.5(b)(1) or as an experimental aircraft, or otherwise holds an airworthiness certificate, flight time acquired in such a vehicle may not be used to meet requirements of FAR Part 61 for a certificate or rating or to meet the recency of experience requirements.”

In the same time, FAR 61.52 referred to the use of aeronautical experience obtained in an ultralight before January 31, 2012. Note that 2007 and 2008 were between these two dates (e.g. various cut-off dates for the SP transition).

Anyhow, it seems to me that you can't do what you plan.

Also, 3,000 dollars for an ultralight, that's a good one. Think about 9,000, if you're lucky, for a Quicksilver with Hirth F-33.

[Lawrence]

Ok thank you for letting me know about that regulation, my instructor told me he didn't know much about ultralights and that is why I came here. So is there any aircraft that I could use to log hours in New Jersey that I could take off and land away from an offical runway, or would getting it certified as an experimental aircraft mean that it now had to use a runway in New Jersey? As for finding an ultralight for less than $3,000, here is one for $750.00, I would need to do some stuff to it but it would still come out to far less than $3,000. My only concern would be weather something this cheap could be completely reliable, and it would also probably be pretty slow. http://www.barnstormers.com/classifi...tralight+.html

[martymayes]

I'm curious with what's up with N. Jersey aviation rules? You can't take off or land a plane unless it's on a runway?

[Lawrence]

To the best of my understanding, individual states are not allowed to change the FAA's in flight regulations, but as soon as you touch the ground, then they have control over you again. So New Jersey has made a bunch of regulations like this without having much real understanding of aviation, I guess just because they can. They have made the same rule for helicopters and sea planes, so now it is difficult to even land a sea plane in New Jersey because there are hardly any sea ports. I have been trying very hard to find some way around this so I don't have to transport my plane to an airport every time I want to fly, when I live right next door to a big open farm.

[1600vw]

To the best of my understanding, individual states are not allowed to change the FAA's in flight regulations, but as soon as you touch the ground, then they have control over you again. So New Jersey has made a bunch of regulations like this without having much real understanding of aviation, I guess just because they can. They have made the same rule for helicopters and sea planes, so now it is difficult to even land a sea plane in New Jersey because there are hardly any sea ports. I have been trying very hard to find some way around this so I don't have to transport my plane to an airport every time I want to fly, when I live right next door to a big open farm.

And people ask what killed aviation. Laws like this and the people whom come up with them and those whom vote for them and those whom enforce them, that has killed aviation in America.

Start a petition to get this changed. There is a website for this called change dot org or something. Its time to get proactive about aviation before this generation is the last to enjoy the freedom of flying small EAB airplanes and PPC, trikes and such.

I will sign it.....

[1600vw]

Why not buy yourself a EAB. Something with a VW engine that burn just a few gallons an hr. You can pick these up all day for 4000 - 6000 bucks. I know of a really nice one with a 1/2 vw for under 4000, just built.
Myself I would stay away from the 2 strokes and stick with a 4 stroke. They do not cost as much to operate as a 2 stroke, just one positive, I could list more but why?

Just my 2 cents, get a good EAB, condition inspection are cheap at least compared to Certified GA airplanes. Here at 3IS5 we are getting ready to start offering these at 250 bucks. The owner will be hands on in this, We even offer housing to stay in while this condition inspection is being done, but this is another story.

EAB not an Ultralight is what you want.

[cluttonfred]

Another thing you might do is to find out what it takes to register a grass strip as a private airfield. In terms of budget aircraft, the thing to do is to join your local EAA Chapter and start asking around about neglected planes in the back of a hangar or unfinished projects. Then you invest your own time and elbow grease and whatever money you can, bit by bit, to bring the plane back to flying condition. $3,000 is awfully low, but you never know. You could certainly get an unfinished project or an engineless airframe for that price. Single-seaters, in particular, can often be had for a bargain price. That, IMHO, is the way to get your own plane on a budget.

[Lawrence]

Thank you for the suggestions, I will definately be joining EAA Chapter 216 for their next meeting on August 13 (God help whoever get's stuck talking to me for three hours...). But if i were to buy and fix up one of these FAR 103 ultralights I see here on Barnstormers, and then get it regestered as an experimental aircraft, is anyone familiar enough with New Jersey's laws to know if I would still be allowed to take off and land without a runway? Or would regestering them as an EAB make them a full airplane, and therefore subject to that set of laws? I would love to get a spot on that farm regestered as a runway, but the unused parts of it vary from year to year and I couldn't ask them to just not use a big spot on their farm every year...
http://www.barnstormers.com/Ultralig...lassifieds.htm

[zaitcev]

You can pick these up all day for 4000 - 6000 bucks. I know of a really nice one with a 1/2 vw for under 4000, just built.

Sorry, but I do not believe in such magic. A new E-AB Kolb just out of Phase 1, with a 582, goes for $13k at best, more like $16k. You may know a builder personally who would let you on a deal like that, but this is much below market price.

I can imagine a well-beaten MX for that price. Or, actually, almost anything that's well-beaten. There's also an ad for a Minimax at Barnstormers right now. But I highly doubt it's airworthy. And nothing in that range is going to have a 1/2 WV, except a Legal Eagle, maybe.