Best ultralight to accumulate flight hours for under3K

[Lawrence]

Hello, I am almost done training to become a private pilot and am looking for a way to build the flight hours needed for higher ratings when I am done. I could never afford to rent a plane for hundreds of hours, but my instructor informed me that hours logged in ultralights can be counted towards those ratings, although he doesn't know a lot about ultralights himself. So I am basically looking for the best ultralight that I can build or buy within my admittedly very small budget. I would like to be able to say that I built it myself, but I don't have the experience to build something too complicated from scratch. I live in South Jersey so it needs to comply with FAR 103 so I can take off and land from the farm next door, unless someone knows of a way I would be allowed to do that with a two seater. It needs to have folding wings so that it can be easily stored and transported, and it would also be nice if I could get something that goes close to the maximum 55 knots so that I could log some cross country time without staying overnight... I know this is a really tall order, I am trying to do a lot with very little money or experience. But I know that if there is anyone that knows how this could be possible, they are probably lurking around here somewhere. Any advice or experience will be greatly appreciated.

[zaitcev]

According to Ron Levy, back in 2005,

FAA Order 8700.1, Volume 2, Chapter 1, page 1-46 and 1-47, paragraph 9.B. states, in its entirety, that:

“B. Logging Time. Unless the vehicle is type certificated as an aircraft in a category listed in FAR § 61.5(b)(1) or as an experimental aircraft, or otherwise holds an airworthiness certificate, flight time acquired in such a vehicle may not be used to meet requirements of FAR Part 61 for a certificate or rating or to meet the recency of experience requirements.”

In the same time, FAR 61.52 referred to the use of aeronautical experience obtained in an ultralight before January 31, 2012. Note that 2007 and 2008 were between these two dates (e.g. various cut-off dates for the SP transition).

Anyhow, it seems to me that you can't do what you plan.

Also, 3,000 dollars for an ultralight, that's a good one. Think about 9,000, if you're lucky, for a Quicksilver with Hirth F-33.

[Lawrence]

Ok thank you for letting me know about that regulation, my instructor told me he didn't know much about ultralights and that is why I came here. So is there any aircraft that I could use to log hours in New Jersey that I could take off and land away from an offical runway, or would getting it certified as an experimental aircraft mean that it now had to use a runway in New Jersey? As for finding an ultralight for less than $3,000, here is one for $750.00, I would need to do some stuff to it but it would still come out to far less than $3,000. My only concern would be weather something this cheap could be completely reliable, and it would also probably be pretty slow. http://www.barnstormers.com/classifi...tralight+.html

[martymayes]

I'm curious with what's up with N. Jersey aviation rules? You can't take off or land a plane unless it's on a runway?

[Lawrence]

To the best of my understanding, individual states are not allowed to change the FAA's in flight regulations, but as soon as you touch the ground, then they have control over you again. So New Jersey has made a bunch of regulations like this without having much real understanding of aviation, I guess just because they can. They have made the same rule for helicopters and sea planes, so now it is difficult to even land a sea plane in New Jersey because there are hardly any sea ports. I have been trying very hard to find some way around this so I don't have to transport my plane to an airport every time I want to fly, when I live right next door to a big open farm.

[1600vw]

To the best of my understanding, individual states are not allowed to change the FAA's in flight regulations, but as soon as you touch the ground, then they have control over you again. So New Jersey has made a bunch of regulations like this without having much real understanding of aviation, I guess just because they can. They have made the same rule for helicopters and sea planes, so now it is difficult to even land a sea plane in New Jersey because there are hardly any sea ports. I have been trying very hard to find some way around this so I don't have to transport my plane to an airport every time I want to fly, when I live right next door to a big open farm.

And people ask what killed aviation. Laws like this and the people whom come up with them and those whom vote for them and those whom enforce them, that has killed aviation in America.

Start a petition to get this changed. There is a website for this called change dot org or something. Its time to get proactive about aviation before this generation is the last to enjoy the freedom of flying small EAB airplanes and PPC, trikes and such.

I will sign it.....

[JimRice85]

I spend $5K annually if I never turn a prop between hangar and insurance.

[martymayes]

I spend $5K annually if I never turn a prop between hangar and insurance.

But the hourly rate decreases for each hour you fly......

[JimRice85]

But the hourly rate decreases for each hour you fly......

But the total cost just goes higher...

[pacerpilot]

Hello, I am almost done training to become a private pilot and am looking for a way to build the flight hours needed for higher ratings when I am done. I could never afford to rent a plane for hundreds of hours, but my instructor informed me that hours logged in ultralights can be counted towards those ratings, although he doesn't know a lot about ultralights himself. So I am basically looking for the best ultralight that I can build or buy within my admittedly very small budget. I would like to be able to say that I built it myself, but I don't have the experience to build something too complicated from scratch. I live in South Jersey so it needs to comply with FAR 103 so I can take off and land from the farm next door, unless someone knows of a way I would be allowed to do that with a two seater. It needs to have folding wings so that it can be easily stored and transported, and it would also be nice if I could get something that goes close to the maximum 55 knots so that I could log some cross country time without staying overnight... I know this is a really tall order, I am trying to do a lot with very little money or experience. But I know that if there is anyone that knows how this could be possible, they are probably lurking around here somewhere. Any advice or experience will be greatly appreciated.

Lawrence, welcome to the EAA. I've read your post/question and have some advice you might find enlightening. First, read the regs. As a private pilot you are responsible for knowing them. If you're close to your check ride you should know them/how to access them. NEVER use advice or "gut feelings" etc. from others about the regs-especially if they admit not being familiar. As to your original question. No, you can't log hours in non certificated aircraft; i.e. ultralights. However, your $3000 will go a lot further than some on the forum might lead you to believe towards an airplane. Check out Barnstormers.com, you'll find many airplanes (not ultralights-they're not airplanes) for under $10000. I have bought several planes in the last few years and never paid more than $9000. My current flyer was $7500 as was the plane I had before that. By the way, it's for sale again on Barnstormers. Both are great airplanes and, they're two place to boot! My wife has two strict rules for me to follow when considering an airplane. They are as follows: The plane must be 2 place. It must be complete or very nearly so/It must fly (hence the complete thing). I find airplanes that fit these rules all the time. My last Taylorcraft was $6000 and yes, I flew it home. I wish I hadn't sold it to a guy in Australia. To summarize; save up a few more bucks, stick to real airplanes (certificated) and, buy a two place (you'll need it). Don't rule out airplanes with car engine conversions or taildraggers either. As for the $3000 a year upkeep...eh, maybe. I don't spend nearly that much. Find a buddy to rent hangar space from, smooze the local AI for condition inspections and, do all the work on your plane you can. There's lots of help here so just ask! Good luck.