Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 27

Thread: EAA's Extraordinary Lack of Leadership

  1. #11
    Auburntsts's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Tampa, FL
    Posts
    532
    I think the timing is related to the fact that with just over a month out, EAA needed to move on with planning. That doesn't mean that Congressional intervention can't happen and the fee request dropped. IMO, the problem in not a lack of EAA leadership. EAA was put into a damned if we do, damned if we don't position. They have no leverage to force the FAA to do anything and as stated earlier, cancelling AirVenture really isn't an option. So realistically there were ever only 2 choices: pay or hold OSH without ATC. Can you imagine the fallout had there been a mid-air over RIPON without controllers present in today's political environment?

    In any event, I'm seeing lots of posts here and on other websites castigating EAA. So for those lamenting a lack of leadership, what would you have done different? If your answer is simply I wouldn't have paid, then I call BS.
    Todd “I drink and know things” Stovall
    PP ASEL - IA
    RV-10 N728TT - Flying
    EAA Lifetime Member
    WAR DAMN EAGLE!

  2. #12

    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Oak Harbor Wa
    Posts
    400
    The EAA should have simply said " OK, don't show up" then put out a new notice, we will have no tower this year.

  3. #13

    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Tucson, AZ
    Posts
    16
    I think Jack Pelton is an exceptional leader and is volunteering without pay. I think he and the Board have made the right decision for this year, because of timing. We will live to fight another day!

  4. #14

    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Omro, WI
    Posts
    202
    If it were only the tower ATC that was the issue, maybe they could have said we will take care of it ourselves. But, the other big part of the issue was all the permitting that is done to use the airport and airspace that would not be approved without the extortion payment.

  5. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Auburntsts View Post
    I think the timing is related to the fact that with just over a month out, EAA needed to move on with planning. That doesn't mean that Congressional intervention can't happen and the fee request dropped. IMO, the problem in not a lack of EAA leadership. EAA was put into a damned if we do, damned if we don't position. They have no leverage to force the FAA to do anything and as stated earlier, cancelling AirVenture really isn't an option. So realistically there were ever only 2 choices: pay or hold OSH without ATC. Can you imagine the fallout had there been a mid-air over RIPON without controllers present in today's political environment?

    In any event, I'm seeing lots of posts here and on other websites castigating EAA. So for those lamenting a lack of leadership, what would you have done different? If your answer is simply I wouldn't have paid, then I call BS.
    What else could the EAA have done? Plenty.

    But first, by announcing early in the process that “we’ll pay if we have to” is devastating to negotiating your position. Talk about a basic mistake. Let’s also ignore the bungled attempt to seek relief from the US Senate. That’s been partially addressed elsewhere.

    The EAA could have sought an Emergency Injunction from a Federal Court Compelling the FAA to provide ATC service by;
    a.) Showing a stoppage of ATC service would cause irreparable harm to EAA,
    b.) That the Court granting an Emergency injunction is in the Public Interest,
    c.) The EAA would likely prevail in its position based on merit, and,
    d.) The FAA would not be harmed in a delay of payment, if so required.

    It would be common curtsey to provide the defendant with say, 48 hours notice prior to filing the motion in Federal Court. This would provide a final chance of negotiated settlement, and absent that, this would mark the beginnings of a legal challenge to the FAA’s authority to direct bill indirect users of the airspace system for ATC services.

    Long ago the EAA has become a large enough business to justify the legal, political and lobbying resources to defend itself against unjust actions. These resources were obviously absent further demonstrating the lack of leadership in running a multi-million dollar organization.



    Mike Hongisto
    President - EAA Chapter 1221

  6. #16
    Auburntsts's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Tampa, FL
    Posts
    532
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Hongisto View Post
    What else could the EAA have done? Plenty.

    But first, by announcing early in the process that “we’ll pay if we have to” is devastating to negotiating your position. Talk about a basic mistake. Let’s also ignore the bungled attempt to seek relief from the US Senate. That’s been partially addressed elsewhere.

    The EAA could have sought an Emergency Injunction from a Federal Court Compelling the FAA to provide ATC service by;
    a.) Showing a stoppage of ATC service would cause irreparable harm to EAA,
    b.) That the Court granting an Emergency injunction is in the Public Interest,
    c.) The EAA would likely prevail in its position based on merit, and,
    d.) The FAA would not be harmed in a delay of payment, if so required.

    It would be common curtsey to provide the defendant with say, 48 hours notice prior to filing the motion in Federal Court. This would provide a final chance of negotiated settlement, and absent that, this would mark the beginnings of a legal challenge to the FAA’s authority to direct bill indirect users of the airspace system for ATC services.

    Long ago the EAA has become a large enough business to justify the legal, political and lobbying resources to defend itself against unjust actions. These resources were obviously absent further demonstrating the lack of leadership in running a multi-million dollar organization.



    Mike Hongisto
    President - EAA Chapter 1221
    What negotiating postion? Do you think that anyone outside of our little flying communtiy and the State of Wisconsin really give 2 cents if AirVenture happens or not? Cancelling AirVenture is a hollow threat to the FAA. A court injunction -- gimme a break. It's an airshow, albeit an important one to us and vital to EAA's operating budget, but it's still a week long airplane fest and not vital to the transportion interests of the nation. AirVenture goes away and the airlines go on their merry way none the wiser. User fees get implemented and the airlines go on their merry way indifferent to any impact on GA. Impact commercial air travel and the govenment will take notice because like or or not that's what matters to the Feds . Inconvience a few aviation buffs and airplane owners and no one is going to bat an eyelash. We can pontificate here amongst ourselves on the internet all we want, but that is not going to change reality. Neither would EAA throwing what would amount to a temper tantrum.

    Look I think this is a raw deal and don't like it either. Hell as a DoD employee, I get to experience my own private sequestration hell in a few weeks when our mandatory furloughs start. But blaming EAA for not doing enough simply doesn't fly in my book and I was one of the early guys calling for Hightower's head on a pike.

    You guys need to direct your emotions at our elected officials who got us in this mess to begin with.
    Todd “I drink and know things” Stovall
    PP ASEL - IA
    RV-10 N728TT - Flying
    EAA Lifetime Member
    WAR DAMN EAGLE!

  7. #17
    MEdwards's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Las Cruces, NM
    Posts
    363
    Quote Originally Posted by EZRider View Post
    I think [Jack Pelton] and the Board have made the right decision for this year, because of timing. We will live to fight another day!
    I agree.

    It is significant that the Senators' letter did not address just AirVenture but repeatedly referred to " and other major aviation events across the country." We've read elsewhere on this board about the FAA's apparent intent to impose these user fees all over the place. And we've heard first or second hand from people at Sun n Fun, Arlington and Copperstate who are directly aware of the FAA's charging them for service.

    The EAA has bought (literally, unfortunately) us some breathing room. This issue is no longer about AirVenture. We now need to redirect the argument toward the FAA's imposition of user fees when the Congress has repeatedly for decades expressed its clear opposition to user fees for ATC services. An airshow in Wisconsin frankly isn't worthy of a Congressional investigation. The FAA's flaunting of Congress' intent is.

  8. #18

    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Northern IL
    Posts
    128
    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Downey View Post
    The EAA should have simply said " OK, don't show up" then put out a new notice, we will have no tower this year.
    That makes no sense. The FAA owns the tower and airspace. How could EAA determine there would be no tower and how could EAA put out a 'notice' there would be no tower when they have no control over the airspace or the tower. EAA made the only decision that makes sense. No one likes it but better to live to fight another day than cancel AirVenture which would severely impact the resources needed to continue the fight.

  9. #19
    RickFE's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    KHEG FL
    Posts
    93
    I have to wonder if this isn't the camel's nose under the tent so to speak. A buddy of mine is going to a tail dragger sort of convention this month. His preparation and excitement factor is similar to mine when I get ready to go to Osh in the summer. It sounds awesome, low key etc. I wonder if many of us will begin seeking new venues? Will the cost begin to outweigh the benefits of attending? Maybe we won't care next time when they are going to shut down more towers. Perhaps we will be disbursing to events less orchestrated and more personal.

  10. #20

    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    FA40
    Posts
    767
    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Stadt View Post
    That makes no sense. The FAA owns the tower and airspace. How could EAA determine there would be no tower and how could EAA put out a 'notice' there would be no tower when they have no control over the airspace or the tower. EAA made the only decision that makes sense. No one likes it but better to live to fight another day than cancel AirVenture which would severely impact the resources needed to continue the fight.
    Todd makes sense to me. FAA planned to close the tower. That Class D reverts to Class G. Read the NOTAM, do what it says, be courteous. No tower, big deal.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •