Pay FAA or cancel Airventure?

[Floatsflyer]

There are so many threads in 2 topic areas devoted to this subject now that I'm confused where I should post this. Anyway.....

I just received an email from Jack Pelton, in what is obviously a mass emailing from Membership Services, thanking me for my support for the Administrator pressure initiative. It even addressed me by my first name. I'm impressed, very nice touch EAA HQ to take the time to do this in light of the fact that time for you is very precious now and you have higher priorities to deal with.

I sent Jack a reply, I hope he receives it in some fashion.

[Hal Bryan]

Thanks for letting us know that it was appreciated. I guarantee you that Jack will see your reply.

[Hal Bryan]

Hal,

What happens to AirVenture this year if we don't pay? Does the FAA close the tower?

Hey, Joe - all I've got for you is a couple of apologies. First, I'm sorry that I didn't see and reply to this earlier - lots of traffic to keep up with today, as you can guess. As for your questions, here comes the second apology when I tell you I can't even speculate on those things at this point.

- Hal

[wa6ilt]

I think the idea of the poll was to give the EAA leadership an idea where the members stand as that should (well I would say must, but I will stick with should) be a BIG factor on where they go with this. This is a very polarizing issue for sure and i think they need gross idea on where people stand on this, so I would encourage people to take the poll.

Hal, my hat is off to you and Steve and everyone else there that is trying to navigate these waters. This whole short notice thing was designed to put you into a difficult, no win situation. For once, a government agency did something well for EAA can;t win here, Jack just needs to figure out how to lose less. The saddening part of this while thing is where is the outrage on the part of the EAA? I have seen some very calm, matter of fact news releases from Jack and others, but my friend, you are getting blackmailed. Where is your outrage? Where are you drawing the moral line in the sand? I know (trust me I do know) that some negotiations with the FAA need to be private if you have any hope of winning. But, sorry, you don't have any hope of changing the FAA's mind here, the Senate campaign will fail in this because there is no time for legislation before, no hope the President will sign it and people will soon forget after August.

So it comes down to this, the FAA has had the courage to put everything on the line. Does the EAA? If you don't you lose. Sure you have your "AirVenture" as normal, but you have set a precedent that will never be undone and you have proven to the FAA that the largest Experimental Lobbying organization and the second largest Aviation Lobbying group can easily be pushed around. That loss of reputation is unrecoverable. FAA has bet everything that you will go for the short term money - prove them wrong.

And look, I keep harping on this, but will say it again. Airventure is a nice vacation, but you are not Airventure inc. In my mind at least, EAA exists as an industry trade group to protect me from bad people. I pay a lot of money and volunteer a lot of time for you to protect me from said bad people. So I don;t want to speak for the guy that started it, but I think this poll is really about that question. Has EAA become Airventure Inc, with every other service subordinated to that function or is the EAA willing to take a hit on Airventure to protect those in general aviation? Stated differently - are we going to choose short term balance sheet health for long term damage to GA?

That is really what this poll is asking, what do the members value more? I think it is important that the leadership knows what the members think.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

[vaflier]

We as an organization ( speaking as a member ) need to take a stand for general aviation. I can think of no better moment in time than to just say no to extortion !. We have already paid for these services through the many taxes we all pay all year long , and now the FAA is going to fail to do the job we have paid it for. This is nothing short of holding a gun to our nose and taking our money. I for one believe that now is the time to stand and fight. If we fail to fight now then user fees at all airports will be just down the road. While I enjoy Airventure I will gladly vote to suspend it for this year if that is what it takes to send a message to our elected and non elected officials that we are not going to give in to thievery. Either we stand and fight for the future of general aviation , and that is exactly what this is about , or we may as well scrap our aircraft and forget our dreams. I say FIGHT, FIGHT, FIGHT, FIGHT.

[Floatsflyer]

Either we stand and fight for the future of general aviation , and that is exactly what this is about , or we may as well scrap our aircraft and forget our dreams. I say FIGHT, FIGHT, FIGHT, FIGHT.

Agreed! Now for additional HQ inspiration, cue Rocky theme songs, "Gonna Fly Now" and "Going the Distance" and pipe them through the office speaker system.

[Joe LaMantia]

Hal,
No apology needed, and thanks for your response.

vaflier,
GA is the smallest fish in the FAA pond, as I said in my first post, there are no "trust funds"! All taxes go into one big bucket and Congress decides what to do with it every year. The general public has been sold a bill of goods on taxes for years. No politician in D.C. wants to bring this up, it opens the door to a big can of worms and could create changes that reduce this center of "power". Since Congress couldn't decide on what to fund and what to cut they kicked the can down the road with "across the board cuts". The reaction is just beginning to be seen by the public and the response is "don't cut mine!". The FAA took a hit on the contract tower closings last month, now it's an AirVenture "fee". I would suggest the fight, if there is to be one should focus on the mission of the FAA. I believe there is a conflict between "public safety" and "promoting aviation". On the promoting side, we've seen a few situations where the FAA "looks the other way" on airline inspections and maintenance, then there's the whole "user fee" thing which is an attempt to shift some costs from the airlines to GA. I would like to see a fight to change the FAA mission to public safety. The airline industry is not some fledging business sector needing govt support to operate or grow. The public does expect the govt. to provide both a safe and secure transportation system. I do like your spirit, and believe we have to fight this, we just don't have enough information to make an intelligent decision. The poll is a necessary for the folks at EAA HQ to get some idea of where the membership stands. I would support a fight on the whole mission thing, and if I had some numbers on AirVenture revenues and costs we could vote on what to do next. Based on Hal's post I'd say the guys in Oshkosh have their hands full trying to sort this out. In the great D.C. budget debate $500K is a nit, but that could be a real show stopper in OSH!

Joe

[Jim Rosenow]

Interesting, well-thought out responses, all! It's kind of a poll outside the poll, but without choice limitations! I'm just going to cut and paste here what I emailed to EAA HQ in response to their "thank you" email....

"I think it's time to make a stand...unfortunately, against our government. The imposition and timing of these fees are nothing more than extortion out of what are perceived as deep pockets.

As a member/aircraft owner since 1971 and current owner of two aircraft, I assure you my pockets are not deep enough to support the governments' out of control actions on an individual basis thru fees. At our home field, we were told last week that 100LL goes up $.60 a gallon when the new load is purchased.

I am in support of EAA telling FAA they will NOT be paying any extra fees for AV and let the chips fall where they may. My wife, who flies a Citation Part 135, agrees with me on this, as the new 'policy' will ultimately negatively impact the entire industry.

Please pass these thoughts along to the powers that be in EAA.

Thanks!

Jim
EAA #64315"

[Ylinen]

I would like to see a choice of EAA does not pay. Let the FAA decided if they want to provide the service. This fee is unconstitutional. Only congress can create fees and tax.

i would stare the administrator in the face and tell him we are not going to comply. Let him take the next step.

they will then have to decide to close the tower, staff with the controllers they have there or do,the right thing.

EAA should request a house hearing so the administrator can answer questions under oath.

[Bill Greenwood]

I hope that Congress makes this right, or that there are at least a few cooler and wiser heads at the FAA that will revise this.

I do hope this can be worked out and Airventure go on as usual.

If forced to make such a hard choice, I might even agree that EAA should POLITELY AND RESPECTFULLY decline to pay this fee.
So what happens then?

The FAA might staff the tower on their own funds and continue as before. Or contiue at less than maximum staffing which might make delays for a lot of traffic arriving.
Or they might try to issue a ruling that Airventure could not be held.

I don't think EAA is in a position to staff with other controllers or any such volunteers, and the traffic load is so big that we really do need good ATC services. It could not be done just as a fly in without as tower as is in smaller traffic events ,could be unsafe and have liability for EAA. And I say this even from a standpoint of preferring non tower airports most of the time. The contollers at Oshkosh seem much more polite and helpful and as if they really like gen aviation and fun planes, which is not always true at other airports.

I really and sincerely hope that this doesn't result in EAA deciding to cancel Airventure. It would be a major disappointment to thousand of people and an economic loss in the millions not only for Wisconsin , but vendors from all over.