Pay FAA or cancel Airventure?

[Hal Bryan]

Thanks for your thoughtful contribution, Scott. Here are my thoughts in response to some of your points:

I think the idea of the poll was to give the EAA leadership an idea where the members stand as that should (well I would say must, but I will stick with should) be a BIG factor on where they go with this.

It must be, and it is.

Hal, my hat is off to you and Steve and everyone else there that is trying to navigate these waters. This whole short notice thing was designed to put you into a difficult, no win situation.

Comments like that are greatly appreciated by all of us - probably more than you know.

The saddening part of this while thing is where is the outrage on the part of the EAA?

If you could stop by our offices or, better still, the local watering hole just across the road this evening at about 6:00, you wouldn't need to ask that question, I promise...

But, sorry, you don't have any hope of changing the FAA's mind here, the Senate campaign will fail in this because there is no time for legislation before, no hope the President will sign it and people will soon forget after August.

We'll just agree to disagree there.

Airventure is a nice vacation, but you are not Airventure inc. In my mind at least, EAA exists as an industry trade group to protect me from bad people.

No, we're definitely not "AirVenture Inc." We are a membership organization, and Oshkosh is, at its core, our (to be crystal clear - I'm speaking as a member here when I say "our") annual convention.

Stated differently - are we going to choose short term balance sheet health for long term damage to GA?

No. Our focus is absolutely on the long term impact, and we hope everyone else's is as well. Regardless of the short-term outcome (and there are no foregone conclusions at this point) this is, as I've said and will keep saying, far from over.

That is really what this poll is asking, what do the members value more? I think it is important that the leadership knows what the members think.

While, as I said, like a couple of other members, I think the poll is premature, if I didn't support everyone's right to ask the questions and voice their opinions, I would have just removed it. Heck, if I didn't support those things, I wouldn't bother coming to work every day... Anyway, anyone who wants to vote, have at it! For those who don't and want to post or have already posted your reasons why, well...you guys have at it, too! That's why these forums exist.

[FloridaJohn]

I think this particular poll is flawed, because all the choices are "pay." Where is the option to not pay?

Even though when I really think about it, I find it hard to believe that EAA would accept the liability of any subsequent air accident if they didn't pay. That means they will be forced to pay what the FAA wants.

However, what I would really like to see is the EAA not pay at all. Not one cent. Call the FAA's bluff and see what happens. Is the FAA really willing to put lives in danger over this? I kinda believe that they are not, but even if they are, it would draw a really sharp dividing line on the purpose (or mission, some might say) of the FAA. And we would once and for all know where they stand regarding General Aviation.

But I know it will never happen, since EAA could be sued out of existence if an accident happens. The FAA can't no matter what happens. The EAA is really in a tough spot with this one and I really feel for the guys at EAA trying to work this out, especially in such a short time frame.

[RV8505]

Pay or quit are strong words. I wouldn't quit but they shouldn't pay it.

[RV8505]

Congress controls the FAA budget, and if EAA has enough allies in Congress then FAA can forgo this new charge that Congress did not authorize and which goes against the general sense of Congress re user fees. Both Bush and Obama administrations have asked for user fees and Congress has stood against them so far.

So, the EAA needs to do what any other group would do and demonstrate political power in this political battle.
Moral outrage by members on this forum or elsewhere directed at EAA leaders is not productive. .

They may also have their legal people take a look at if this is fair treatment across the board. Did the FAA charge the Republican Party for extra ATC services in conjunction with their national convention? How about the Superbowl or Kentucky Derby or any other big public event?
I'd guess that EAA has a good lawyer or two on staff and also many of our members may be attorneys, and even have some experience with this type of thing.

Sure as the sun comes up they didn't charge the Democrat party for their convention.

[scott f]

Hey just for the record - I was not asking where the moral outrage against the EAA leaders is. Heck, while I have not met Hal yet, I really enjoy working with these guys and all have my utmost respect, especially Shawn Elliot, whom I owe much too.

My moral outrage snippet was that I want to see the EAA express some of it publically. Heck, I want to see the theme of this years convention be FAA overreach - I want to see someone selling T-shirts with the acronym FUFAA

[Floatsflyer]

I want to see someone selling T-shirts with the acronym FUFAA

Don't be surprised if you see some opportunistic entrepreneur vendor doing just that. $15 a pop would sell quite a few I'm sure. We could wear them and march en masse to the FAA booth in the Federal Building. Ya baby, bring back the 60's!

[Bill Greenwood]

You can make a good T shirt which expresses displeasure with the FAA without being obscene or crude.

The best one I have seen was at the little shop in Denver at Centennial airport next to Denver Jet Center.
It listed the four forces acting on an airplane.
1. Lift, going up
2. Gravity, going down
3. Money, pulling forward
and 4. The FAA dragging rearward

[Bill Berson]

Pink T shirts?

[Joe LaMantia]

Hal,

What happens to AirVenture this year if we don't pay? Does the FAA close the tower? Assuming they did that, could we get enough volunteers to spot and control traffic at an "uncontrolled" airport? If this is blackmail, then we need a grass roots campaign to clear up the conflict regarding the FAA's mission. Clearly we would loose a lot in attendance at AirVenture which reduces EAA revenues. Given the short notice, it would seem that are options regarding this year are very limited. Either we pay or wind up with a greatly reduced AirVenture this year, if that happens I'd like to see all EAA members go on a one month fuel purchase boycott.

Joe

[wa6ilt]

Done, Hal! Apparently not a hot button item locally with only 250 votes or so in the third day.

I also noticed this article while I was there that I thought others might find interesting....

http://www.thenorthwestern.com/artic...ol-tower-staff

Also voted.