View Poll Results: Pay FAA or cancel AirVenture?

Voters
31. You may not vote on this poll
  • Pay. It's right thing to do.

    2 6.45%
  • Pay. We have no choice.

    5 16.13%
  • Pay this time. Never again.

    2 6.45%
  • Pay and I quit. Don't give in to blackmail.

    22 70.97%
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Thread: Pay FAA or cancel Airventure?

  1. #1

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    Pay FAA or cancel Airventure?

    So what do you think is the right thing to do?
    Last edited by wa6ilt; 06-06-2013 at 03:49 PM.
    David Reinhart
    ASN Volunteer/KFIT

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by wa6ilt View Post
    So what do you think is the right thing to do?
    I think the right thing to do is not respond to this poll's drastic choices because it's premature. Lets first see the results of the political pressure placed on the Administrator today.

  3. #3
    Jim Rosenow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Floatsflyer View Post
    I think the right thing to do is not respond to this poll's drastic choices because it's premature. Lets first see the results of the political pressure placed on the Administrator today.
    Agreed, FF....in my opinion the poll is a bit premature.

    I noticed neither of my Senators signed the letter to the Administrator. I will be sending a copy of it to them, and inquiring why not.

    Jim
    Last edited by Jim Rosenow; 06-06-2013 at 09:10 PM.

  4. #4

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    FYI, AvWeb is already reporting EAA has caved in on paying.
    David Reinhart
    ASN Volunteer/KFIT

  5. #5
    Jim Rosenow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wa6ilt View Post
    So what do you think is the right thing to do?
    It saddened me when I was perusing the poll results to see that Jonathan Harger, who lists his occupation in his public forum profile as "Government Advocacy Specialist at EAA", has voted that we should "Pay. We have no choice". Understand that I support completely Mr. Hargers' right to have an opinion and vote in the poll as an EAA member, but that just made me go, "Hmmmmm".
    Last edited by Jim Rosenow; 06-07-2013 at 06:25 AM. Reason: Add specific quoted verbiage

  6. #6
    EAA Staff / Moderator Hal Bryan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Floatsflyer View Post
    I think the right thing to do is not respond to this poll's drastic choices because it's premature. Lets first see the results of the political pressure placed on the Administrator today.
    I agree.

    Quote Originally Posted by wa6ilt View Post
    FYI, AvWeb is already reporting EAA has caved in on paying.
    As I posted elsewhere earlier today, nobody has paid anybody at this point, and this situation is far, far from over. We have multiple tools left in our toolbox.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Rosenow View Post
    It saddened me when I was perusing the poll results to see that Jonathan Harger, who lists his occupation in his public forum profile as "Government Advocacy Specialist at EAA", has voted that we should "Pay. We have no choice". Understand that I support completely Mr. Hargers' right to have an opinion and vote in the poll as an EAA member, but that just made me go, "Hmmmmm".
    Jonathan, like all of us on staff, is an EAA member. Like many of us, he was a member long before he started working here, and, as you correctly pointed out, he is completely entitled to his opinion, and to the right to express it here. I am completely confident in this case that that's all he was doing - expressing a personal opinion. I wouldn't be at all surprised if that opinion was tainted more than a little by the anger and frustration all of us are feeling because of this situation, but that...well, that's just my opinion.

    Oshkosh will not be canceled, period. Whatever the short-term outcome of this move by the FAA, as I said: this is far, far from over.

    If any of you really want to vote in a poll, why not go vote in this one?

    http://www.thenorthwestern.com/poll/2013-06-05/7156221

    Hal Bryan
    EAA Lifetime 638979
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    Managing Editor
    EAA—The Spirit of Aviation

  7. #7

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    This is just another example of why we have "problems" in congress. Both parties agreed to the "sequester" because they couldn't agree on what to "cut" and what to "fund". Our system is all about money, who pays and who benefits. Congress holds the purse strings and decides what to spend all revenues, there are no real trust funds just a big bucket called the US Treasury and Congress decides what to do with it every year. Yes, the President submits a budget, but it is always "amended" by Congress. Both parties have "earmarks" to satisfy the various "home crowds" and we all want to protect something. EAA and AOPA are just trying to protect there little corner and that is what the membership expects. Reality is slowly arriving, that we have changed the basis of this economy and can no longer hold the status quo. What is needed is a real agreement that has long-term positive impacts for the country as a whole. It's clearly not going to happen, so we get a whole lot of distractions over small things that don't have a big impact. This whole tower fee thing is a nit compared to what the challenge that we face. As far as the poll goes, I agree with Floatsflyer and I'm not voting.

    Joe

  8. #8
    Jim Rosenow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hal Bryan View Post

    If any of you really want to vote in a poll, why not go vote in this one?

    http://www.thenorthwestern.com/poll/2013-06-05/7156221
    Done, Hal! Apparently not a hot button item locally with only 250 votes or so in the third day.

    I also noticed this article while I was there that I thought others might find interesting....

    http://www.thenorthwestern.com/artic...ol-tower-staff

  9. #9

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    I think the idea of the poll was to give the EAA leadership an idea where the members stand as that should (well I would say must, but I will stick with should) be a BIG factor on where they go with this. This is a very polarizing issue for sure and i think they need gross idea on where people stand on this, so I would encourage people to take the poll.

    Hal, my hat is off to you and Steve and everyone else there that is trying to navigate these waters. This whole short notice thing was designed to put you into a difficult, no win situation. For once, a government agency did something well for EAA can;t win here, Jack just needs to figure out how to lose less. The saddening part of this while thing is where is the outrage on the part of the EAA? I have seen some very calm, matter of fact news releases from Jack and others, but my friend, you are getting blackmailed. Where is your outrage? Where are you drawing the moral line in the sand? I know (trust me I do know) that some negotiations with the FAA need to be private if you have any hope of winning. But, sorry, you don't have any hope of changing the FAA's mind here, the Senate campaign will fail in this because there is no time for legislation before, no hope the President will sign it and people will soon forget after August.

    So it comes down to this, the FAA has had the courage to put everything on the line. Does the EAA? If you don't you lose. Sure you have your "AirVenture" as normal, but you have set a precedent that will never be undone and you have proven to the FAA that the largest Experimental Lobbying organization and the second largest Aviation Lobbying group can easily be pushed around. That loss of reputation is unrecoverable. FAA has bet everything that you will go for the short term money - prove them wrong.

    And look, I keep harping on this, but will say it again. Airventure is a nice vacation, but you are not Airventure inc. In my mind at least, EAA exists as an industry trade group to protect me from bad people. I pay a lot of money and volunteer a lot of time for you to protect me from said bad people. So I don;t want to speak for the guy that started it, but I think this poll is really about that question. Has EAA become Airventure Inc, with every other service subordinated to that function or is the EAA willing to take a hit on Airventure to protect those in general aviation? Stated differently - are we going to choose short term balance sheet health for long term damage to GA?

    That is really what this poll is asking, what do the members value more? I think it is important that the leadership knows what the members think.
    Last edited by scott f; 06-07-2013 at 07:47 AM.

  10. #10

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    Congress controls the FAA budget, and if EAA has enough allies in Congress then FAA can forgo this new charge that Congress did not authorize and which goes against the general sense of Congress re user fees. Both Bush and Obama administrations have asked for user fees and Congress has stood against them so far.

    So, the EAA needs to do what any other group would do and demonstrate political power in this political battle.
    Moral outrage by members on this forum or elsewhere directed at EAA leaders is not productive. .

    They may also have their legal people take a look at if this is fair treatment across the board. Did the FAA charge the Republican Party for extra ATC services in conjunction with their national convention? How about the Superbowl or Kentucky Derby or any other big public event?
    I'd guess that EAA has a good lawyer or two on staff and also many of our members may be attorneys, and even have some experience with this type of thing.
    Last edited by Bill Greenwood; 06-07-2013 at 08:14 AM.

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