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Thread: FAA Wants EAA To Pay Them To Staff Oshkosh l

  1. #181
    TedK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wrongway Feldman View Post

    The United States Post Office has been running in the red for years why can't the FAA?
    Who said FAA is running in the Red??

    With Fuel Taxes, it looks like FAA actually makes $ from GA. It sure appears to me that GA, particularly private sport GA, is paying more into system than they get. I have no desire to subsidize the nearly bankrupt cash hungry airlines that use most of ATC.

  2. #182

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    Well, this thread has the best discussion on this subject, I read somewhere on one of these threads that the FAA gets 71% of it's funding from the fuel taxes, which means that 29% comes from someplace else. My guess is that is the "general fund". All these "trust funds" are just political speak for more tax revenues and each year the sitting Congress decides what to fund. This year they couldn't decide how to divide the pie, since there are too many folks at the table, so everybody has to take a smaller piece. Some say we already paid for our piece, but it looks like we only paid for 71% of the cost for the piece, but expect the same size slice as last year. The FAA says we'll give you the same size slice but it will cost you $450K up front or you can have the smaller slice without AirVenture. In response to "Wrongway", the whole federal govt is in the red and the fight is and always has been about who gets and who pays. Clearly the 1% are getting more then they need but they have the $$ so they get their way. This is not my "political" position, just looking at the charts.

    Joe

  3. #183

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    Quote Originally Posted by rwanttaja View Post
    Don't forget the wording of EAA's announcement: "EAA today finalized a one-time agreement..."

    As Dick's posting said a few pages back, the FAA didn't give EAA a definitive answer on whether they were going to get charged until barely three months before the show. Not really enough time to do anything drastic. Now, this gives them the opportunity to fight hard for 2014, and come up with some alternatives if the FAA stays firm.

    With the time they had, the only real alternative would have been to cancel the show. I don't think that would have been in the best interests of EAA, for the hundreds of vendors who count on making serious sales contacts during the show, or for the hundreds of thousands of people for whom this is the high point of their aviation year.

    EAA really made the only choice that was possible...but as the news release says, the agreement is ONE TIME. Sure, it sets a precedent, which won't help, but EAA will now have a year to come up with alternate arrangements.

    Ron Wanttaja
    As the old saying goes, "Once you pay the danegeld, you never get rid of the Dane".
    David Reinhart
    ASN Volunteer/KFIT

  4. #184

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    Did the FAA send a bill to Arlington?
    Arlington is July 11-13 (before Oshkosh), the temperary Arlington tower hours are 8:30-6:30pm with 3 hours closure for the air show. So that's 7 hours per day. They have a simple portable tower set up on the field and a remote approach controller on Friday and Saturday only.

  5. #185
    Several months ago, I was told (by the FAA guy in charge of such things) that Arlington was going to receive a quote for close to $50,000. However, that was for a five-day tower, with longer hours than their notam indicates. My guess (and that's all it is at this point) is that they curtailed the tower hours of operation to lower the cost and then agreed to pay the bill.

    I am the Air Operations chairman for the Copperstate Fly-In, and we're still waiting for a quote from the FAA. But I fully expect it to be in the vicinity of $30,000 for our usual three-day tower. If that is the case, we won't be paying; most likely the airport will just operate non-towered during the event, as it does the rest of the year.

  6. #186
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    Quote Originally Posted by flibmeister View Post
    I am the Air Operations chairman for the Copperstate Fly-In, and we're still waiting for a quote from the FAA. But I fully expect it to be in the vicinity of $30,000 for our usual three-day tower. If that is the case, we won't be paying; most likely the airport will just operate non-towered during the event, as it does the rest of the year.
    Bully for you flibmeister!!! Run Copperstate like the Cactus fly in. Much easier to get in and out without the tower. As usual, I'll be there!

    -CubBuilder
    EAA Chapter 691 President

  7. #187
    Quote Originally Posted by cub builder View Post
    Run Copperstate like the Cactus fly in.
    That's the plan, although it does come with some disadvantages. Without the FAA there to absorb responsibility for any incidents, we're going to be more reticent about promoting the Showcase pattern, shortcut patterns for demo or passenger rides, that sort of thing. Not that folks can't do some of that on their own, of course; we just can't sanction it. Better for the average fly-in attendee, but some of our exhibitors may not be happy.

    I'll be the guy with the nicest golf cart on the airport (orange Mini convertible). Flag me down and say hello!

  8. #188
    cub builder's Avatar
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    I'll look for you.

    Sorry for the thread drift.

  9. #189
    Dan's Avatar
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    I was thinking about all this earlier today, and it got me thinking.

    Concerts and other big gatherings like football games hire local police officers to provide secutity and crowd control for their events. These private events pay for those services.

    I think I have changed my tune to think that we should also be able to fund our services directly. However, and this is critical, we need to pay for the services we need, not inflated inefficient government services.

    FAA dollars, and the government in general, are paying for defined benefit pensions and antiquated systems. Employees in the private sector typically have defined contribution pension funds (if they get a pension at all) and are always working to change and improve the systems they are working with. Retirement is not automatic at some age.

    If, and only if, we can do something to ensure that we only pay for services rendered and not be sacked with the huge entitlement costs killing our government, I agree that we should pay a fee for our big event...

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