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Thread: Legal Advice

  1. #1

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    Legal Advice

    Hey y'all.
    Reaching out here as well as getting in person advice. Here's my situation. Getting out of the Marines here in about 10 months. I'm in the process of applying to Dowling College for their 4 year Aviation Management course, along with the professional pilot add-on and AT-CTI. Goal being the air traffic controller route.

    They want to know if I've ever been convicted or charged with any crime on the application.

    I have a 7 year old, sealed misdemeanor for criminal trespassing at my local airport. I was a dumb kid who just wanted a closer look at the planes. There was a recent rash of avionics thefts at that time, so I was immediately called out and the police took me in. Pleaded guilty, served my community service and was on my way.

    They said it was sealed, but the Marine Corps with their super federal powers saw it, but I don't know if a college will. The advice I've gotten so far went along with my current train of thought, and that is better to explain my actions than get caught in a lie. So I think that's what I'm going to do.

    But what about later down the road? It's a charge related to aviation, and I'm going to be apply for a federal job in the aviation field. I'd like to think they'd take into consideration 5 years in the Marines, that can do wonders for a kid who didn't know what he was thinking, and at that time the arrest will have been 12 years old. After a while in the Corps, I also was approved for a security clearance, so that should count for something too.

    Anyone got any insight on this matter?

  2. #2
    Banned
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    Let me give you some real good legal advice, pro bono...don't ask for legal advice here. The information you seek is too important and needs to be absolutely correct for what you want to pursue. Go talk to a CRIMINAL LAWYER.

  3. #3
    Well i am not a lawyer, but i am a Federal civilian employee. Between your being a minor at the time, and having already had a security clearance, i wouldn't think you'd have any issues. I don't know what level your clearance was, but so long as it was at or above what you'd have as an air traffic controller you shouldn't have an issue with Federal employment. Also unless the FAA did the enforcement i wouldn't think that this actually counts as an aviation related charge, it's a trespassing charge. but again, that's just my armchair advice, a law professional will know more on that front. Just a side note too, the FAA won't receive a copy of your security clearance paperwork from the Marines, nor will any other federal agency they all have to do their own clearances, they do not transfer.

    Just my $.02

  4. #4
    CarlOrton's Avatar
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    If you're an EAA member, you have access to their legal team. Give them a call and see if they recommend you go see someone who can address your case as Floats suggested.

    Personally, I'd report it. If you go ATC route for center or approach you'll be going for another security clearance anyway. The fact that it was a misdemeanor and you were a kid should be mitigating circumstances. I was a senior manager for an aerospace firm; you'd be amazed at the stuff I saw come to light when folks were processing for clearances. Basically, if they find it without you telling them, that raises suspicions - sealed or not. If you 'fess up on the application, they usually acknowledge it but continue anyway. The basic thought is that you then can't be blackmailed into divulging secrets. "Hey, buddy - if you don't tell us about the WhizBang800, we'll tell the feds that you have a criminal record!" "Go ahead, scumbag - they already know it!!!"

    Carl Orton
    Sonex #1170 / Zenith 750 Cruzer
    http://mykitlog.com/corton

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by BillDenny View Post
    Anyone got any insight on this matter?
    Application for any FAA airman certificate requires disclosure of criminal convictions. Plus you'll have to pass a 10 yr criminal background check to work for the FAA.

    I don't think any of it will make much difference though......

    Good luck!

  6. #6

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    I am not a lawyer, but my Son is. He doesn't specialize in aviation law, but is familiar with aviation, and is a former prosecutor in the D A s office. If EAA or AOPA can't give enough legal advice and you want to hire a lawyer, give me your email or phone no on here, or send it to me by private message.

    Just my personal opinion, I would not cover this up, I would discuss it IN PERSON, with the college or whoever. If you can get a copy of the police report it may help you also.
    I think most people believe in a 2nd chance, but only if they can be assured of a person's future honesty.

    Just a small point, when Paul Tibbets was interviewed to be the pilot and leader of the atomic bomb squadron, he was asked a similar question, and he was selected because he answered truthfully on a minor infraction years before, which the FBI already knew about.

  7. #7
    cub builder's Avatar
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    It's a misdemeanor and not particularly important to security clearances as long as you declare it up front. You'll get a chance to explain and that will likely be all there is to it. I have never seen a clearance pulled or denied for a misdemeanor charge from when the applicant was a minor unless they tried to hide it. They do get a bit jacked up about felony convictions, but misdemeanors, by design, are intended to indicate a lesson learned, not to damage your future employment chances.

    For clarity, I am not a lawyer or qualified to give legal advice. Consider this to be personal advice from someone that has held multiple high level security clearances with periodic re-investigations for most of the last 4 decades.

    -CubBuilder

  8. #8

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    Okie dokie, thanks y'all. Walk-ins for legal counsel are going tomorrow at 0700. I'll stop in there.

    And I've seen a security clearance be denied due to a misdemeanor...mine. I was supposed to be ATC in the Marines. That one charge made me a Harrier mechanic.

  9. #9

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    First the usual disclaimer. I am not an attorney, this is not legal advice... blah blah. I am just a computer geek who has experience in federal contracting.

    A few things, under the Patriot Act, all security clearances for all agencies have been largely centralized under OPM. There are some specific exceptions and add-ons which are department specific. While OPM now has the responsibility for managing the clearance, the clearance is "held" by the an Agency or a Company. Because of this, if the FAA requires you to get a clearance, your previous background records should be available to OPM and then the FAA. Second, read the paperwork carefully and verify with the instructions. I have seen multiple revisions where the criminal background portion has been changed. I did have an employee who caused himself a lot of grief by reporting a misdemeanor when the question specifically asked for felony only (this was not a security check, but a background check).

    Lastly, as others have said talk to an attorney; and even investigate having your record expunged.

    Tim

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