Cold night

[Bill Greenwood]

Today is April 14, and on this night in 1912 RMS Titanic went down after striking an iceberg at full cruise speed.
Over 1500 lives were lost, with about 700 saved.
There were not enough lifeboats for all and they foolishly didn't even load the ones they had to capacity. It was a surprisingly calm night, and they were able to lower all the boats, but there was of course confusion and some passengers did not want to enter the small boats until they realized too late that the ship would sink. They could have saved virtually all the women and children by overfilling the boats.

Of course the big mistake was to ever consider any ship, even one as grand as this, to be unsinkable and to go to sea without space for all in the boats.
This attitude of "Nothing could possibly go wrong"is dangerous and can be see even today in many areas including aviation, like the battery problems on 787s, or DC-10 control problems.
And there can never again be the understanding that some part of the people, in 3rd class, don't deserve as much safety as anyone.

Lessons were learned by this the hard way, after this disaster ships carry a full complement of lifeboats, and there is an international patrol the keeps watch in icebergs moving into the shipping lanes and nations share the cost of this patrol.

I went to high school in Houston with a boy whose grandfather was Isidor Straus of Macys Dept store. Despite his fame and wealth, he would not get into a boat ahead of other men and his wife Ida would not leave without him, so they were lost together just as they had been for 40 years.

[David Pavlich]

Sure was a tough lesson. But...it's how "hidden" problems are found. I would assume that the battery problems in the 787 didn't show up during flight testing. And my bit of history, my grandfather was on a ship that picked up survivors from the Lusitania. Timing is, indeed, everything.

David

[Bill Greenwood]

The Lusitania sinking shows how far the evil of war can extend. America was not yet at war with Germany and this was not a warship or armed. It may have been carrying some amunition or explosives to England, but really was a passenger liner.

The Germans had publicly warned that any ships going into England might be attacked, but to torpedo a passenger liner was barbaric, unnecessary and bad tactics, and the excuses made after the sinking were mostly hollow.

She carried enough lifeboats for all, as this was three years after the Titanic, but the damage was so sudden and severe that in moments the list was enough to prevent all the boats from being filled and lost.

This act backfired on Germany as public opinion in America was inflamed against them and eventually we entered the war and helped win it.

[gbrasch]

If you ever get a chance to see the Titanic exhibit, do so, it is unbelievable.

[rwanttaja]

The Lusitania sinking shows how far the evil of war can extend. America was not yet at war with Germany and this was not a warship or armed. It may have been carrying some amunition or explosives to England, but really was a passenger liner.

The Germans had publicly warned that any ships going into England might be attacked, but to torpedo a passenger liner was barbaric, unnecessary and bad tactics, and the excuses made after the sinking were mostly hollow.

The Lusitania was openly carrying military munitions (contrary to international law), was flying the flag of a combantant country, and was in an area specifically identified as a war zone. The Brits needed a sacrifice to help bring the Yanks into the war, and the Lusitania worked as well as anything. The civilian passengers were hostages, nothing more. The Germans fired one torpedo, but a secondary explosion actually sunk the ship. Coal dust, or the aluminum powder and guncotton the Lusitania was supposedly carrying (Not on the manifest, unlike the millions of rounds of rifle ammunition)?

This act backfired on Germany as public opinion in America was inflamed against them and eventually we entered the war and helped win it.

"Eventuallly" is the key. Took two years before the US declared war; Lusitania wasn't really a major driver. At the start of the war, it was a toss-up as to which side we'd eventually join. There was a lot of pro-German sentiment in the US in 1914, and a LOT of anti-British feeling. Read some of Kipling's articles from his time, ten years prior, when he lived in the US. He's kind of bewildered as to why Britain was so hated....

Ron Wanttaja

[RV8505]

It is a shame the British used those passengers like that.

[rwanttaja]

It is a shame the British used those passengers like that.

WWI is an interesting overlap between the old ways of warfare and the new. Technology had an unexpected effect, and militaries at their best don't handle changes well.

The Lusitania was perhaps the ultimate example. One pre-war international agreement was that civilian vessels would not be fired-on unexpectedly; that they would be stopped and the passengers allowed to debark prior to the ship being sunk. This was referred to as "Cruiser Rules."

However, this agreement was based on "classical" combatants. The submarine threw this for a loop. The Kriegsmarine started out following the cruiser rules... Upon encountering a merchant ship, submarines would surface, fire a shot across the ship's bow, and signal it to heave-to for inspection. If it turned out to be a legitimate prize, the crew and passengers were sent into lifeboats (the U-Boats didn't have room) and the ship scuttled or shelled. They didn't waste a torpedo...torpedoes were expensive, and it was cheaper to blow a hole in the bilges with explosive charges or pop the ship with the deck gun.

Then one day, a U-Boat surfaced near a British merchantman. It signaled it to heave to, and the merchantman came to a halt. Women were seen running down ladders, heading for the lifeboats. The U-Boat approached to begin its inspection.

Then covers dropped down, and large guns started firing at the U-Boat. It was called a "Q-Ship." It was a disguised warship, and the "women" were young sailors in dresses forming "panic parties."

Legitimate ruse of war? I tend to think so. But the consequence was far-reaching. Q-Ships hadn't been used much in the past, because the intercepting ship was likely of considerable size. It could take a hit or two, then really pay the Q-Ship back.

U-Boats? Not so much. Only a single gun, and a lucky hit on a ballast tank would sink the frail vessel. Q-ships were bad, BAD news for U-Boats.

And hence, the result was the "unrestricted submarine warfare" that the propagandists capitalized on. And the Lusitania got a torpedo with no warning (though considering the proximity to enemy territory, the U-Boat may not have attempted to conform to cruiser rules in any case).

It's interesting to note that *surface* combatants pretty much complied with cruiser rules, even into the Second World War. Count Felix von Luckner was the classic WWI example, capturing 14 Allied with minimal loss of life...even more remarkable when you consider Luckner had a square-rigged sailing ship!

Ron Wanttaja

[Victor Bravo]

This act backfired on Germany as public opinion in America was inflamed against them and eventually we entered the war and helped win it.

...with a little help from George Creel and the Creel Commission; America's "minister of propaganda". His job was to manipulate the "isolationist" public opinion in America to support our entering the war.