Parking Problems at Oshkosh

[N4018Niner]

In keeping with the braggadocio of some of the posters in this group. *I too have been coming to Airventure/Oshkosh since 1984, the year I soloed just after my 16th birthday. *I missed a few years when I was overseas in Rwanda, Africa, flying relief-aide and working with orphans. *I too was married at Airventure in forum pavilion number 5 and hope to establish a fund to get it decent sponsorship for perpetuity. *I have flown 330+ Young Eagles (one at a time, with each one getting to sit in the left seat of my Cessna 120) *I fly a Beech 18, a Cessna 120 that has had it's story printed in Vintage Magazine, and am building a Pitts S1-SSIt is unfortunate that *people would make the comparison between a Nazi and a hard working EAA person. *Really? *Do the participants, in this forum condone the reference to a regime that was truly oppressive and was responsible for World War II and millions of deaths? *I for one don't! *I think it is an utter disregard to the brave men and women who faced the Nazi regime and fought for true freedom.But to the issue of parking problems.... *Those who post here likely have not had to experience the disappointment of being turned away, or hearing on the ATIS that the North 40 is full. *There are many legitimate reasons someone might arrive "late" -* I am in the medical field. *I trade Thanksgiving, Christmas, and New Years to get this week in July off. *Sometimes someone's grandma gets sick in the ICU and I have to make sure she is taken care of before I leave,* making me late to the show...The field did not close to GAC single engine planes this year. *Yeah! *(Yes I know heavy aircraft were restricted due to field conditions). *For the most part everyone who wanted to camp in the north 40 could. *That is something we should be GLAD *about. *With more hangars going up on the north side of the field, GAC camping is losing spots each year. (fortunately VAC is letting spam cans in, which is OK with me, it just makes my planes look better). *I believe that one of the reasons we came close to, but did not fill, was that a LARGE majority of pilots come to Oshkosh because they love airplanes and know they will be sleeping either on rocks or in water but will get to meet neighbors who love airplanes. Those who appreciate the priviledge of flying into the show, scrunch their tents up close the the plane to make room for a friendly neighbor/EAAer. *THAT is the EAA spirit I grew up with. *"Think about the other guy" - when a pilot gets stuck at my airport because of weather, I'll push my airplane further back into the corner and leave my car or truck out in the rain to make space. *The name calling and staking of tradition is not true EAA spirit.* However, if you insist on tradition, I think if Paul were to have it his way, there would be a hell of a lot less alcohol on the field. Real EAA tradition is to help each other enjoy aviation.By the way, a link to the brief camper guidelines:* http://www.airventure.org/planning/a...camping.htmlTo solve the problem, be considerate of everyone on the field and everyone who hopes to make it to KOSH. *Becareful of what you say, don't call someone a Nazi and then expect to exchange pleasentries. Always read the NOTAM and the Camping rules. *Volunteer !!!! * I volunteered about 50 hours that week working only on understaffed shifts. We can always use more help.I can't wait for next year. *Will there be less space to park airplanes? *Will the field fill? *Will more spam cans have to camp in vintage?

[Bill Greenwood]

I am not sure what point or points you are trying to make, but that is a pretty strong or even harshly worded statement. If you feel that strongly, why not sign your name to it as many of us do ours, and not just a number?
Or you the lady that some people referred to as being in charge of parking and so rude to several people?

I personally don't or have not drink while on the field, but I see a lot of people that seem to enjoy a social drink with their friends, and for the most part I haven't seem problems with that.

[Antique Tower]

I think if Paul were to have it his way, there would be a hell of a lot less alcohol on the field.

Not just Paul.

The booze-fueled parties in Scholler are getting atrocious. I made the mistake of camping near "The Coffin" in Paul's Woods last year. But the worst are the groups of ten or twenty that sit around drinking until midnight or later every night. Don't they realize their neighbor's windows are open? That some of us, God forbid, bring our kids to Oshkosh? That some of us have places to be at 7am?????? I've been coming since 1986 and that is definitely one change I don't agree with.

And I didn't even mention the South Africans.....

[Lrrryo]

........t *people would make the comparison between a Nazi and a hard working EAA person. .........

Niner,

I'm "SURE" you understood the jest of the comment. Probably not "my" choice of a description, but the point is understandable.

And, we're not addressing the deserving hard working volunteers... many of us have been there. We're addressing one particular person that has proven to go out of her way to just be totally unacceptable. That person has a problem and we want it solved.

Are you that person? If so, take note.

[vaflier]

Niner, I applaud you accomplishments in aviation and your professional life, although I am not quite sure how they contribute to the point of this thread. I even accept your veiwpoint although I cannot say I see how this nickname is an insult to those who fought for freedom. I would agree that they earned and deserve the utmost respect !. Oshkosh to me is a wonderful place to spend time with friends, both old and new who share my love of flying. To that end we like to camp together and even arrive several days early to ensure that we can do so. We know we will be sleeping on rocks and may even get washed out, it's all part of the package. I would agree that we all should be aware and considerate of our neighbors, and we were. All of the volunteers and staff we met at Oshkosh were fantastic, except one. While I did not give her this nickname, I can see how she came to aquire it. No one should be accosted by a yelling, angry, belligerent person immediately upon engine shut down, before you can even exit the aircraft. If there is a problem that would certainly not be the best way to resolve it. This person was highly irate and and completely out of line. Among other things she raved about safety, and not 20 minutes later was observed driving her scooter a very few feet ( 5 to 10 ) in front of a moving aircraft to force it to stop. Again, probably not the best aproach. This type of behaviour was observed a number of times. The point of this thread was to try to bring to light a problem and seek resolution. Attempts to move through proper chanells were met with silence and as a last resort I started this thread in the hope that it might bring about positive changes. There is hope that I may have succeded in doing so. Only time will tell. I look forward to hearing the outcome of the meetings to address these issues.

[Bill Greenwood]

I am not sure how big a problem excess drinking and late night noise is at EAA, nor how this can be administered; but perhaps there needs to be some area set aside for non drinking, just like non smoking.
Drunks can be obnoxious.

[Antique Tower]

Twenty years ago I saw volunteers patrolling Scholler all night. Haven't seen that at all the last couple of years.

[N4018Niner]

I, Mark K. Jacob aka N4018Niner EAA 506047 stand by my statements. So no I am not the person you are discussing she is my boss and well qualified for the job, with probably over 30 years of experience despite her young appearance. 2011 was my tenth year as a GAC volunteer.

I apologize for the “*” that peppered my last post as they were unintentional.

Let me restate my points briefly

1. Name calling by adults is petty and reflect poorly on the caller.
2. AirVenture is for all aviation enthusiasts and the general public.
   
   1. While I am not a lawyer I believe this case upholds this notion that AirVenture is for the public especially aviation enthusiasts. The Court Case Winnabego County V Matthew Miller 08/17/2011 where Mr. Miller claimed that Airventure grounds were private property and that he was not breaking the law by operating a vehicle under the influence of alcohol in the warbird area. As a warbird owner and pilot (N40189 Beechcraft RC-45J) I feel there are MANY things wrong with this picture. I would be very upset if I caught Mr. Miller driving around my aircraft while under the influence. Mr. Miller can not do what ever he wants on the field. By the way he too claimed to be friends with EAA leadership.
3. Pilots who follow directions get greeted magnanimously.
   
   1. The NOTAM requests pilots to follow EAA flag people, most controllers remind pilots soon after landing. The goal of the parking crew is to get as many planes on the ground as possible. Large tents, airplanes parked the wrong way, or with extra space reduce the number of planes on the ground. Pilots like some who post on this web site do not voluntarily make room for strangers. Thus the role for the parking crew. Now we are not professional aircraft marshallers, most are not even pilots. So I under stand the frustration and confusion when trying to follow the guidance of our well-meaning volunteers. I am fully aware of the cloud of orange dancing about like Mexican jumping beans from which no decipherable marshaling can occur. But just taxi toward them soon enough someone will give you legible directions. You will get an ignominious greeting if you ignore the flagmen, or demand to be special. There is always a few who come up to me and start out with “I know Paul, Tom, or Rod, I have been coming here for X number of years and I want to do…X” As IF I have not been coming AirVenture for years and do not know what I am supposed to do. This is not a way to greet a volunteer, most of us have heard it before from other pilots. Just because I write letters to the president dose not mean he knows me from Adam. So unless Red One or Red Three are there to greet you and park you themselves. Please read the NOTAM and follow the flag men and you will receive a warm welcome to Airventure…

I am sure that many of you will disagree but the “General Aviation Campground” is not for special pilots and showplanes. If you are special or have commercial interests or have friends in high places then perhaps the Weeks Hangar or the West ramp is a more appropriate venue. I park my plane / camp in the Vintage area because I do not want aircraft tailed next to either of my aircraft. I do not have to ask for special privileges because that is the way things are done in VAC.

Disclaimer: The opinions expressed in this editorial are solely those of the author and are not those of the EAA, or its representatives, I am only a volunteer. Further more The pilot is command is solely responsible for the safe and efficient operation of his or her aircraft, and should exercise extreme caution and taxi at your own risk on the unimproved surfaces of the airport.

P.S This year seems to have been an abnormally bad year for aircraft accidents at aviation demonstrations weather they are shows or races... Lets remember the families and loved ones left behind and remind our selves both as pilots and spectators that the thing we love carries with it risk. Let's make sure those risks are calculated and minimized.

N1829V Landing after showcase fly-by 2006


N40189 She will be at the show next year. Any volunteers to help polish?

[Jeff Point]

Mark, from one orange vest to another, bravo and well said.

[Antique Tower]

I remember one pilot who refused to follow Vintage marshalling directions, shut down in the middle of one of our intersections and demanded to go to VIP parking, saying he knew all the board members of VAA and the EAA.

We started working the radios, trying to find out if maybe this guy was supposed to be back there in VIP, and he looked at the three of us standing there and said, very caustically, "What's the matter, don't you guys know how to make a decision?"

Funny thing was, he was talking to two airline captains and an ER doctor. Yes, we make many many decisions in our lives. We were trying to cut this guy a break, even though he was being quite rude. He ended up going south to about row 120.

Yes, there are a few (well, really one) groups that are allowed by many years of habit to park with each other in VAA, unofficially of course, in their own area every year. But that group has built up a relationship over many years with the volunteers and managers of the area. They are unfailingly polite, and they always bend over backwards to not be a problem to the volunteers (except their parties but that's another story).