Parking Problems at Oshkosh

[Bill]

No mention of the offensive person, just 'improved training'....whoopeee..

And the advantage of mentioning the offensive person is ...? Other than to generate another bunch of pointless posts, it serves no purpose.

Wait until after 2012 AirVenture is over and then let people report on their experiences, good and bad, with N40 parking.

[vaflier]

John, I can most certainly understand that there are things which cannott be discussed in this forum and I have full faith that the personnel problem has been dealt with and nothing further needs to be said concerning it. There was a second concern raised in my original post which I am less certain about. In an attempt to seek clarification I will simply ask the following question, If we arrive very early or at slow traffic times will be allowed to park with our friends, or will we be simply told to follow the guy in front. Clearly traffic volume will limit the amount of flexibility the parking folks have to work with us. Again thank you for your efforts.Randy Powell

[flyingriki]

And the advantage of mentioning the offensive person is ...? Other than to generate another bunch of pointless posts, it serves no purpose.

Wait until after 2012 AirVenture is over and then let people report on their experiences, good and bad, with N40 parking.

You want to wash the subject away so I get it. I know, I know, pass it first to find out what's in it.....where have we heard that before.....
What you call pointless is much less so to many others. I wouldn't want anything to do with N40 after hearing of these hassles and the hush hush "fix". Not much done in secret is good, that's why it's secret!

[John Carrier]

Randy (et al):

I'm going to share with you a portion of a message that I shared with another group asking for basically the same thing. Here goes....

Three basic rules:

1. Safety. That is safety on the taxiways, then in the parking areas. Safety of individuals (attendees, volunteers, general public, etc.) and safety of property.
2. Ensure efficient traffic flow. Quickly get aircraft through the taxiways and parked.
3. Maximize parking space. Each parking area is planned out to put as many planes as possible within the N40 real estate. Try to give the N40 experience to as many campers/parkers as possible.

A few points:

1. Flight Line Operations (FLO) consists of a dedicated group of volunteers (roughly 200 volunteers plus Civil Air Patrol). As you might expect, it takes a lot of knowledge, experience, patience, etc. to effectively and efficiently handle aircraft traffic (especially during the weekend before convention). During peak times, this group has its hands full just delivering on the three basic rules, with little to no time to consider anything else (e.g., special parking requests).
2. There are differing levels of experience in the FLO crew. Only a handful of people have the necessary skills to marshal/park certain aircraft or make “on the fly” (no pun intended) decisions.
3. There are also differing levels of experience of those who fly in for the event. Some are long-time attendees and for others, it’s a first time experience. FLO has no way of knowing the relative skill or experience of the pilot once on the ground.
4. It is impossible to predict how many aircraft (or type) will arrive at the N40. So, by default, FLO will pack the planes in tightly as they come in.
5. Weather or other uncontrollable events can make it difficult (if not impossible) to taxi or park aircraft as normally planned.
6. The N40 is an active airport first, with aircraft camping and transient parking attached (not the other way around).

Your request:

1. In the past, FLO tried to accommodate special requests when possible. Unfortunately, doing so often resulted in an expectation that the special request be accommodated in subsequent years, regardless of conditions (e.g., heavy traffic, strained resources, adverse weather).
2. Allowing one group to park in a certain area sets a precedent that FLO may not be able to support for other requesters.
3. A question of “qualification” comes into play regarding the request to park where one wants. What justifies preference of one (or group) over another?

In light of the aforementioned, the official answer is, unless you are part of a formal mass arrival group (or fit within a small set of noted exceptions), aircraft is to be parked in the order it arrives in a location designated by FLO during convention.


John

[John Carrier]

You want to wash the subject away so I get it. I know, I know, pass it first to find out what's in it.....where have we heard that before.....
What you call pointless is much less so to many others. I wouldn't want anything to do with N40 after hearing of these hassles and the hush hush "fix". Not much done in secret is good, that's why it's secret!

I have a general rule - provide performance feedback in private. Work for improvement and move on. If you have direct, observable behavior you wish to share with me this year, you are welcome to do so.

[Jeff Point]

In the past, FLO tried to accommodate special requests when possible. Unfortunately, doing so often resulted in an expectation that the special request be accommodated in subsequent years, regardless of conditions (e.g., heavy traffic, strained resources, adverse weather).

John,

Bravo and well stated. On behalf of Oshkosh volunteers all over the field, it is good to hear you say this, as it shows a level of understanding that we are not certain exists within the new EAA management staff.

[WingsAloft]

No mention of the offensive person, just 'improved training'....whoopeee..To allow a situation like that to continue year after year goes to the heart of the mentality out there......

There's a part of me that sorta agrees with the spirit of what your're saying. However, this problem did not evolve overnight, nor will it be resolved immediately. This problem is not confined to a single event or person, nor will it be resolved by a single event or person. If we do not show support and appreciation for the effort exerted by the leadership, why shouldn't they slack up on the problem? Let's applaud them for their effort! Don't you think THEY want to be rid of this concern as much as WE do? We could just not go, but they've gotta live with this. Even if they are just a bunch of greedy capitalists, you bet they would try to fix this. But firing one person will only give a few people a sense of revenge. It will come nowhere close to fixing the overall problem.

[WingsAloft]

Just for clarification, has anyone ever shown up at OSH at a "very un-busy" time, and for no apparent reason, was not allowed to park just a few yards over to where they wanted? (and again, for no apparent reason?)

[Bill Greenwood]

I have not met her, as for as I know, but in reading all the previous posts about parking problems last year, it is very apparent that this one person was a major part of the problem. If you have a position of some importance who is going to be dealing with large numbers of the public, it is VITAL that the person be top notch, but from what I read she falls far short. Let's say for some good reason, a policy of allowing some group to park together actually needs to be changed. The person that says "no " should have some people skills, not act like some dictator. It has been written that her normal job is a guard at a prison, (no joke) and that is not someone who is likely to have much patience or good demeanor when dealing with the public, quite the opposite.

Now, John has avoided talking about this person, not sure why. But I hope that John or someone in the EAA chain has the good sense to make sure this women is somewhere else and does not have a chance to offend so many members this year. John's way may be to do this behind the scenes instead of on a public page.

And WingsAloft, yes there are times to show up in north 40 parking that are not very busy as well as some are packed, and I would hope that parking people can use some common sense and good manners in less busy times.
Pilots need to be calm and polite also, but the ground folks should remember that the pilot may have just flown all day even through bad weather or a tense arrival procedure and may be a little off our best also.

Zack hit the point exactly, that for the worse, is has become somewhat an us vs. them mentality in parking; that is we the members ,(I have been for 30 years) are somehow the enemy to be controlled by the parking cops. That's not how it should be.
It may well be better this year, let's give it a chance. If you are really worried about it, park at Appleton and bus down.
If this woman is a major problem again, then perhaps those direclty involved need to get a lot of signatures on a petiion to have her removed.

[WingsAloft]

Bill, well said. I see where I was mistaken. You're right. So now I see this person really is a problem. I am confident something will be done. If not, maybe we can sign petitions or something. We'll just have to see this one through.