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Thread: Parking Problems at Oshkosh

  1. #131
    WingsAloft's Avatar
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    I have the fullest confidence that this issue will be resolved satisfactorly. (I guess you could call it blind faith, or confidence in common sense). This problem hurts them more than it hurts us (notwithstanding how much it hurts us). They will at least do what's in their best interest, which would include insuring people have a great time at OSH2012. I am confident that I will have a great time there! (that's code for: I am confident that I will not encounter a certain someone!)
    *** Life is Lead Points and Habit Patterns ***

  2. #132

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    Sep 2011
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    John,

    Thanks for giving us a definite answer in time for us to make alternate travel plans. Our group from Tulsa has been arriving two days early so we could show a sign in the window requesting a particular row to park on. On all but two of the last 14 years we have been allowed to go to "our row" and park. Those two years there was no apparent reason we were not accommodated. Your statement: "In light of the aforementioned, the official answer is, unless you are part of a formal mass arrival group (or fit within a small set of noted exceptions), aircraft is to be parked in the order it arrives in a location designated by FLO during convention." tells us we must have really created a problem we were not aware of.

    We will not be a problem this year!!

    Unless not being there is a problem.

    Thanks --- Lynn Coltharp

  3. #133

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    Quote Originally Posted by John Carrier View Post
    Randy (et al):I'm going to share with you a portion of a message that I shared with another group asking for basically the same thing. Here goes....[/LIST]In light of the aforementioned, the official answer is, unless you are part of a formal mass arrival group (or fit within a small set of noted exceptions), aircraft is to be parked in the order it arrives in a location designated by FLO during convention. John
    John, Your response indicates that there will be no fleixibility shown by the parking folks regardless of the traffic volume or other conditions, except for other noted exceptions. Is this correct ?????, if so it seems to be very customer unfriendlly . I am all for ensuring the safety of the people and aircraft on the ground and certainly there are times when there is no time for anything except herd the aircraft in one direction as fast as possible. During the slow times I would think that there could be some room to be more flexible. As far as maximizing space is concerned , my Cherokee is going to require the same amount of space regardless of where it is parked, so I truly do not see a problem there. I would also ask for an explanation of ( other noted exceptions ). Could you expound on that statement ?. Randy Powell

  4. #134

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    Another Idea?

    How about another sign for the aircraft window? Lets call it "GRP" for group parking. Then lets make an out of the way area the group area, say the area east of the old terminal, it hardly fills up anyway. You now taxi aircraft to the FBO area, during all times of the day so, a few feet further, on the same taxiways, shouldn't matter. It would cost you one volunteer to park the group. Lets put the number of planes in the group on another sign and the first aircraft could hold up number and some sort of name for the group. Each additional group member could have something like "3 out of 10", "Blue group", on their sign. I bet pilots can organize themselves within a set of guidelines. Then, the parking volunteer could simply count out spots to save in a row. Maybe, groups arrive between 10 and 12 each day, you only need a two hour volunteer.
    We all get that management has changed, please don't forget, one big reason we attend is the comradery.
    Thoughts?

  5. #135
    John Carrier's Avatar
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    All:

    When I stated, "aircraft is to be parked in the order it arrives in a location designated by FLO during convention," that is the rule that we must abide by. Note that I did not state FLO will not show any flexibility in where it directs aircraft or how it parks them. In other words, I am allowing them to determine, based on the mitigating factors I've already shared, what is appropriate. With that said, make no mistake, this group cannot accommodate all of the special requests or guarantee preferential treatment of anyone. We must follow their lead.

    The problems arise when some people take it upon themselves to determine and follow their own rules. When an exception is made, there has been a pattern with others expecting the same treatment, regardless of the situation. The "unofficial guide to AirVenture" begins to form and through various mediums, the word gets out that there are ways to circumvent the directions of FLO. In my review of ground operations, I have found attendees who have disregarded FLO instructions, moved or removed baracades, or in some extremes forcefully taxied to a location of their chosing.

    So, we are faced with three choices:
    1) Make it a "free for all" on the N40 grounds (not an option)
    2) Totally restrict all aircraft movement and placement on the N40 grounds (not a desired option, but possible if left unchecked)
    3) Have a set of objectives (revisit the 3 I shared) and rules to deliver. Implement as a pragmatically as possible, allowing for discretion and best judgement given conditions at hand.

    The 3rd choice is what EAA is attempting to provide.

    John

  6. #136
    John Carrier's Avatar
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    Brian:

    I appreciate the idea. I have been working with FLO to consider other group parking, but the reality is that this is a very, very complex problem. Some points:
    1) Did you know that EAA does not own all of the AirVenture grounds? Most of the property, certainly adjacent to the taxiways, is owned by the county and EAA leases the property for the purposes of AirVenture?
    2) Did you know that the county sets its own rules/restrictions regarding aircraft operation on the airfield? These include aircraft camping and parking around the terminal.
    3) Did you know that the FAA also has a set of rules that must be followed given this is an airport first, then a camping/parking area?

    There are so many other factors to consider, explore, discuss, etc. So, for this year, we are focused on the formal mass arrival groups. We may introduce some other options next year, but I cannot say what they might be.

    John

  7. #137

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    John, This sounds like a fair well balanced aproach to meeting the needs of all concerned. Thank you very much for all the effort which you and your co workers have put into attempting to solve the concerns which were raised. I beleive you have tried to make the best of a very complicated proposition. My hat is off to all of you. It is nice to see that the problems which caused this thread to be originally posted have not been ignored. I hope to meet you at Airventure 2012. Well Done !!!!!!!!Thank you. Randy Powell

  8. #138

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    Sep 2011
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    John.

    I am aware of the "Did you know" items you mentioned, we all work with the FAA, airport boards, etc. I was simply offering a possible solution to an issue, that seems to concern so many members (paying customers) on this board, I left the details to those close to the situation.
    By the way, your answer to me reads a little on the demeaning side, was it intended?

    Brian

  9. #139
    John Carrier's Avatar
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    Brian:

    No offense intended or implied. Just pointing out that there are many variables to this "equation" and that not all of the variables are controllable by EAA. I appreciate the suggestion.

    John

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