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Thread: Electronic Bogeyman Gone?

  1. #1

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    Electronic Bogeyman Gone?

    The news reports a story in the New York Times, that the FAA may soon allow some use of electronic devices on flights.
    Sen. Claire McCaskill, D.-Mo. has been urging the FAA to modernize this way, and give passengers the same rights as pilots and flight attendants.

    For years the FAA has told passengers that I pads and such were the equivalent of the Bogeyman under the bed. Some part of the public even believed this myth, others just went along as there wasn't much choice.

    It was ludicrous, but that never slowed down the govt. folks that for 5 years claimed that Bob Hoover was unfit to fly as a pilot, and for decades claimed that it was unsafe for pilots over 60 to pilot an airliner. If anyone doesn't mind bringing a few facts into the argument, airline pilot age was first upped to 62 , then to 65. Now if the all knowing govt was correct you would think there would be airliners falling all over us due to those too old pilots. But on the contrary, there hasn't been a fatal crash of a U S major airline in over 3 years.

    If the FAA were now to admit that they were wrong, they'd lose face, but then again, as far as this matters goes, they never did have much logic on their side.

    I don't use many electronic gadgets myself. I don't know how to operate most of them , even if I owned them, and I don't have any desire to use them in flight while riding on an airliner. I prefer to look out the window or read.

    But if would be nice to ride on a plane where the flight didn't start out with the officiial version of a hoax, that many, if not most people no longer believe in.

    In some cases the FAA can change when they are wrong. After passengers were repeatedly stranded for 8 or more hours being held on planes on the tarmac, Congress finally forced the FAA to make this illegal and it has almost disappeared now.
    Last edited by Bill Greenwood; 03-25-2013 at 01:45 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Greenwood View Post

    It was ludicrous, but that never slowed down the govt. folks that for 5 years claimed that Bob Hoover was unfit to fly as a pilot,
    There was another issue at stake in the Hoover case, which was relevant to his fitness to fly, but not relevant to his flying skills. It is my limited understanding that the FAA's actions were an attempt to address what they saw as a problem, without damaging the credibility of an aviation icon. The FAA took a lot of heat for it that apparently was not entirely deserved.
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    Victor, I think you probably aren't familiar with the Bob Hoover case or else you have a warped sense of justice.
    In brief:
    Bob is a WW II vet and combat pilot, test pilot and widely thought of as a hero if anyone is.
    He is universilally known as either the best pilot of all or certainly one of the best. Virtually everyone in the aviation and airshow business would say this, just like saying Babe Ruth was the best or one on the best. There is no doubt of that.

    So Bob flew a show in Ok., and no problems. But later two FAA guys say that his performance was at fault. Could they have seen something that really was wrong? Bob has been flying shows for decades and no one else ever saw or said they saw any errors, not even one time.
    Problem for the FAA, was that this show of Bob's , like so many others was on video tape. No errors could be seen. Some of Bob's peers were at the show and found no error in his performance. Others could find nothing on the video less than his usual high standards.
    THE FAA COULD NOT FIND ONE AIRSHOW EXPERT, NOT ONE OF HIS COMPETITORS TO SAY THAT BOB FLEW ANY LESS THAN EXCELLENT. NOR COULD THEY IN YEARS TO COME.

    Never mind logic, facts, and fairness.

    They then claimed he had some medical problem.
    So Bob retook all the medical exams, and passed with flying colors.
    Still not good enough for the FAA.
    Bob went to England and Australia and took their flying exams and of course passed with the highest recommendations.

    So here is a man widely acclaimed to be an American hero who is legal to fly anywhere else in the world, except his own country.
    And this without any evidence, just on the say of two guys who in no way were expert, much less airshow equals to judge Bob.

    Finally ,after years a new man was appointed head of FAA and he did the right thing. He apologized and reinstated Bob, but you can't give back the years he lost.
    By the way, unlike some big shot celbrities around aviation, Bob is also a nice guy. Still is.

    Why did the FAA do this to him? Was it just personal jealousy?
    Bob says they wanted to stop him flying because the FAA was trying to stick with their age limit of 60 for airline pilots, and Bob flying as an expert acro pilot over that age was making them look bad.
    That is as good an explanation as I have heard.
    Last edited by Bill Greenwood; 03-25-2013 at 04:23 PM.

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    Everything you said about his skills and airshow performance, on that day and every other day, is correct.

    Everything you said about his status as an American hero, WW2 Veteran, test pilot, and aviation icon, is correct.

    If my sense of justice was warped, I'd tell "the rest of the story" to defend my posting. But like the FAA administrator during that time period, I'll gladly take a little heat myself to not tarnish a most deserving reputation.

    I apologize if this seems argumentative or "muck-raking". My intent was not to be evasive or cause an argument, but simply to point out that the FAA is not always the big evil party-pooper everyone always thinks.
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    Victor, do you work or did you work for the FAA?
    I don't nor do I work for Bob Hoover.
    But fair is fair, and facts are facts and to persecute any one person without facts or to distort facts is wrong.

    If you have some secret indictment of Bob, that exonerates the FAA let's hear it. Don't make some vague reference to it. And if they had more information adverse to Bob, they would have certainly used it, they had no compunction against trying to damage his reputation.

    If you are by any chance referring to Bob's flying the T-28 in California, yes I am aware of the claims between the owner?seller and Bob. I don't know which side it correct, but the facts are that despite the engine problem Bob brought the plane and the passenger back to the airport and didn't crash.

    By the way, I know something bad about a pilot named Victor from California, but so as not to damage his reputation , I am going to keep it secret. And my "secret" has to do with an actual accident, not some made up supposition or allegation.
    Last edited by Bill Greenwood; 03-25-2013 at 05:16 PM.

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    There is another news release today that quotes Sen, McCaskill that the ban, "doesn't make sense and lacks scientific basis."
    That has been obvious for years, but now most people are seeing the same thing.

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    Sorry to further the "thread creep", but I did want to address Bill Greenwood's comments and set his mind at ease.

    My actual name is Bill, "Victor Bravo" was my old contest numbers in sailplane racing 30 years ago. I do not now, and never have, worked for the FAA. In fact, I was one of those "...until you're not happy" anti-FAA types for most of my flying time, and I even had an FAA violation against me (buzzing, 1983).

    After having gone through the STC-PMA process, and having a truly good and professional experience with FAA ACO and MIDO offices, I learned that there are still a lot of good pro-aviation people in the FAA. There are probably plenty of uncaring bureaucrats and authority-trippers, but in fairness I'm now quick to point out that I have worked with good people who give a damn.

    I've been in a couple of situations that could be called "accidents", one time hitting a power pole landing on a road near Mono Lake (sailplane competition off-airport landing), one time pulling the landing gear assembly out sideways (sailplane off-airport landing), and one time dead-sticking an RV-3 into a river wash (prop failure). I'm guessing (hoping) these are not the incidents you're referring to.

    My comments had nothing to do with Bob Hoover buying or selling an airplane (not familiar with that story). That would have nothing to do with his being fit to fly.

    I believe, in my personal opinion, and based on hearsay, that the FAA administrator (Admiral Don Engen, another "pilot's pilot") did have some compunction against tarnishing Bob's reputation. I doubt any other FAA administrators before or since would have felt that way.

    Sorry for being evasive, please be assured I'm not playing cat and mouse with you. I'm just being an old-school aviator.
    Last edited by Victor Bravo; 03-26-2013 at 10:35 AM.
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  8. #8
    JimRice85's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor Bravo View Post
    Sorry for being evasive, please be assured I'm not playing cat and mouse with you. I'm just being an old-school aviator.
    Old school would have never mentioned it...
    Jim Rice
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimRice85 View Post
    Old school would have never mentioned it...
    I'm afraid you're right. I just wanted to let people know the story is not one-sided. Shoulda not opened my big trap.
    EZ Flap is the high performance upgrade for Cessna, Piper, Stinson, Maule and Beech manual flaps.
    More performance - more control - more visibility ! 100% Money Back Guarantee www.ezflaphandle.com

  10. #10
    David Pavlich's Avatar
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    Back to the OP, I'm not so sure that I want cell phones ok'd during an airliner flight. It has nothing to do with making the plane do a barrel roll, it has everything to do with the person sitting next to you on his or her phone for two hours. Taking my cue from Neil Boortz, I've decided that if it ever happens and I'm sitting next to a guy or gal that is on a cell phone for more than five minutes, I'll take out the magazine from the seat pouch and read it aloud. Eventually, there'd be an understanding reached.

    David

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