What are you flying?

[WLIU]

Nice Hiperbipe. Did you build it?

I would offer you a character building exercise. There are lots of "good" aerobatic pilots out there. "Good" is a very fuzzy adjective. The Hyperbipe is a very capable IAC Sportsman level aircraft. I invite you to participate in an IAC Aerobatic Contest and see how "Good" measures up against your fellow pilots. We all go through the process of posting our first score and finding out that our first try at "Good" is a lot sloppier than that of our peers. Anyone can make the airplane swap ends and call it a loop. But to get a really good score you have to fly a wind corrected vertical circle, without veriations in roundness or wandering off heading.

At the end of each of our first contest, each of us gets to decide whether we really want to fly precise "Good" aerobatics, or whether flopping around is good enough.

I encourage you and everyone reading this post to move beyond mere "Good".

My personal favorite aerobatic figure is a rolling circle. Four coordinated and continuous rolls inside while changing heading 360 degrees, while holding altitude and trying to arrive back on the original heading at the exact moment that the fourth roll reaches wings level (Thanks Leo!). How about you?

See you at the box.

Wes
N89PS

[RetroAcro]

Nice Hiperbipe. Did you build it?

I would offer you a character building exercise. There are lots of "good" aerobatic pilots out there. "Good" is a very fuzzy adjective. The Hyperbipe is a very capable IAC Sportsman level aircraft. I invite you to participate in an IAC Aerobatic Contest and see how "Good" measures up against your fellow pilots. We all go through the process of posting our first score and finding out that our first try at "Good" is a lot sloppier than that of our peers. Anyone can make the airplane swap ends and call it a loop. But to get a really good score you have to fly a wind corrected vertical circle, without veriations in roundness or wandering off heading.

At the end of each of our first contest, each of us gets to decide whether we really want to fly precise "Good" aerobatics, or whether flopping around is good enough.

I encourage you and everyone reading this post to move beyond mere "Good".

My personal favorite aerobatic figure is a rolling circle. Four coordinated and continuous rolls inside while changing heading 360 degrees, while holding altitude and trying to arrive back on the original heading at the exact moment that the fourth roll reaches wings level (Thanks Leo!). How about you?

See you at the box.

Wes
N89PS

+1, very well said. Wes is subtly challenging you to increase your skills - it's not necessarily a question of ability. Two different things. I've known a number of "good" pilots who have gotten into competition acro after doing largely self-taught acro on their own for years. Those first ground critiquing sessions can be very humbling. As Wes mentioned, even the first contest experience after quite a bit of time preparing and practicing can also be. For those who are not quickly turned off by the initial ego deflation quickly take their skills to new levels. It's all in the interest of the challenge and satisfaction associated with improving and learning to fly with more precision. But you have to be the type of pilot who DOES care about this, otherwise it's probably not for you. Not making any judgments, but some just like flopping around, "hotdogging", or just lazy fun flying, which is fine. Aerobatics is very easy to do. Doing them with a high level of precision is not. I think ego may prevent some folks (who may have flown recreational aerobatics for years) from getting involved with competition. They may have never had any training beyond the basics, and definitely never had any expert ground critiquing. They might feel they are pretty "hot", but deep down are uncomfortable with having their skills measured in such a public way against pilots they know are already experienced with contest flying.

For those who feel this way, I can only say that the real competition is with yourself, not with other pilots. Many folks who have never flown a contest obsess about how well they will do, how uneasy they are flying in front of judges and all their peers, and how they may not like the "competition" atmosphere. Basically, they take it way too seriously before actually experiencing what contests are really like. You'll get over this after your first flight in the box. What contests are really like is different from what many expect. Everyone is friendly and welcoming and eager to help you. There's practically no competitive juice BETWEEN the pilots. It's just like golf, you're competing against yourself. And what keeps most pilots involved becomes less about the "competition flying", but the friends you make, the camaraderie, and the chance to spend a long weekend hanging out and flying with like-minded folks. It's really a small community. For folks who have serious interest in aerobatics, I've never understood not getting involved, given how few and far between real acro nuts are.

So Hiperbiper, there are two contests near you each year - IAC 24's Sherman, TX contest - about an hour flight for you, and IAC 3's Grenada, MS contest - maybe an hour and a half. Everybody loves seeing unusual types at contests, and yours would be very capable in Sportsman. You might look at the sequence and think nothing of it, but I guarantee you that flying the figures well enough to get good scores, INSIDE the box, and presented well in the box is quite a challenge. I'm sure you have the ability, but nobody has a chance at flying well without experienced help from the ground. I guarantee you there will be many things to tighten up that you did not (and could not) realize from flying on your own. I think a lot of folks get a little bored doing recreational aerobatics on their own, because they've lost the ability to find new things to improve on.

Eric
IAC 19

[frank_rv4]

I had 4 hours or so - of training in a citabria - we got to doing hammerheads - cuban 8's etc... loops - rolls - spins etc... mostly sportsman catagory stuff. I got my RV4 - about 6 months or so later - had to go back to flying my tommie I had for about 3 years or so until I got the RV4 here. To fly that I went down to Oregon and took 5 hours of dual with a Mike Seager who has about 12000 hours on these Van's aircraft. Since I did'nt have huge amounts of tail time I thought it prudent that I get some dual time with a pro - before hopping into that RV4. That was all I needed - I flew it back in from the US myself - on a import ferry permit from Tran. Canada. Then got a good AME to do my annual - and check it over prior to the Tran. Canada - MDRA - inspection - it's quite the process. Anyone considering brining a plane in from the US - into Canada - think twice. Huge amount of work - and paper work - red tape etc... Took me about 3 months and cost about 10G by the time it was all said and done. Since then I've been up about 40 times or so with my RV4 - that's since August. I do pretty much all that plane can do in it's current config. I now want more power and a fully inverted system - I'm almost half thinking of selling it and or trading it for a pitt's or christan eagle - or other type of full acro machine I love acro that much. RV4 is awesome don't get me wrong but it's designed as a multi functional - sport aircraft - for sport touring - and for light aerbatics. not full out - acro.

What type of AC is that plane featured in the above photo? I have not seen one like it?

[Hiperbiper]

Wes and Eric,
I have no desire to compete in a contest. I fly to please myself and practice the maneuves I want to fly to the level of precision I wish to achieve!
I've been married for 11 years and don't need anyone else telling me I'm not doing something right...

Thanks for the invite but no thanks...I like my Flip-Flop-Flying.

[RetroAcro]

Wes and Eric,
I have no desire to compete in a contest. I fly to please myself and practice the maneuves I want to fly to the level of precision I wish to achieve!
I've been married for 11 years and don't need anyone else telling me I'm not doing something right...

Thanks for the invite but no thanks...I like my Flip-Flop-Flying.

That's perfectly fine. There are many who enjoy aerobatics just as you do. We were simply responding to your statement about not needing outside help to become a "good" aerobatic pilot. At the end of the day, you only have to be good enough to avoid killing yourself. Nothing else truly matters if you are enjoying yourself. But "good" is a meaningless adjective without comparison. And BTW, all pilots think they are "good". :-) In reality, half are below average. :-)

Regarding choosing your own level of precision, there are many manuevers that you really won't know how precisely they are actually being flown until you get some good dual or expert help from the ground so that you can learn what certain things actually look like vs. what you think they look like. You might be surprised. This is where expert help can be a great asset. So you might become "good" on your own, but you can sure be a helluva lot better with a little help. Viewing expert help as simply someone telling you you're "not doing something right" is not a great attitude. It's not about that at all. That's exactly the ego hang up that I mentioned in my previous post. I would rather someone tell me what I'm doing wrong so that I can fix it and then know I'm flying well, rather than just go about assuming I'm flying well, when in reality I'm likely not flying as well as I'm hoping or assuming I am.

I'm not flaming you...this really isn't some "who's is bigger" argument, because flying is about satisfaction and personal freedom. Nobody's saying how you approach that end is wrong. We just might disagree a bit about the value of coaching from other experienced and knowledgeable aerobatic pilots. Many of the greats are self-taught...Younkin, Loudenslager, and others. But I guarantee you Leo Loudenslager would have never won a world championship without some external critiquing.

[WLIU]

frank_rv4 - The RV-4 can fly Primary and Sportsman programs. Aerobatics Canada is smaller than IAC, but they are a great group of folks. I am sure that you will be very welcome at their events. Out east here, I go up to Quebec when they host a contest, and there are some Canadians who are regulars at the US contests. Great people and great pilots.

Every airplane can teach you something and you do not need a high horsepower super ship for your first contest flight. In fact, it is better to start in a lower performance airplane because then you really learn to fly the figures. A pilot with good skills can post a good score for a figure in any equipment. As with any athletic activity, taking short cuts early in your skills development results in great frustration later. Waiting just makes you older.

So since you have such a large investment in your current airplane, I encourage you to come to the dance with the date that you have. Its fun, humbling, and enriching, all at once. And, as a wiser man once said "Adversity introduces you to yourself."

See you at the box.

Wes
N78PS

[frank_rv4]

Thanks for the input - truly appreciated - I've been in contact so far with the folks up in Rocky Mountain house - which I'll guess is about 1.2 - 1.4hours or so from here by air - but over some nasty mountains - I fly in similar mountains almost every day but I also respect that there are few days when it's actually safe for us in these Light aircrafts to simply breeze across the Rockies - and or the coastal range - if you are headed to Vancouver or the Island. They have a nice contest each year in Rocky mountain house I was invited to go last year but had only got my plane - certified for flight in August - so not quite ready yet for that. Now I am - or near ready - and of course anyone can continue to benift from the exerience of other's - no matter if they are a experienced maybe retired - commercial airline pilot - and or a CFI - etc... I'm aways open to learning . This is a nice stepping stone to bigger and better - acro machines - I'm already beginning to think that rather than pumping more $$ coin into this RV4 - once I get my feet wet in competition etc... I will likely want to sell it and get a pitts and or a laser or something else I can fly safely - but also compete at higher levels and do more challenging figures as well. The RV4 is'nt bad - but it has it' s limitations - it's not just power - it's basic design it for a fun - and relativily easy to fly - sport aircraft - that is inexpensive but for the money is fast and fun. it's all that for sure - going from my tommie to this was a great move for me - I've had cherokee's - cessna's etc... but this by far is the most fun I've had yet flying. I knew that aerobatics would be for me - because my son and I are roller coater "finantics" and have been to many of the "big" one's through the US. flying aerobatics for me is like most people doing normal circuts - it's normal. Not only do I love it - but I'm pretty good at it - becuase it comes natural to me and it's not "scary" - or freaky - although most of the poeple I talk to are pretty freaked out - I try and explain it's like anything else - if you do it correctly it's not more dangerous than normal flying. Yes I can't wait to do more! I was thinking of posting my RV4 - on Barnstormer's not so much for sale but for trade - for someone that has a one seat - aerobatic machine that say wants to up grade to a 2 seat sport aircraft. Yes I can put more power under the bonnet - and add - fuel injection or an ellison carb and inverted oil system etc... costing me maybe 15G or so total to do this - or more. But it's still what it is - it's designed to go 200mph not 140 - 160mph and be fully aerobatic - also it's got a high lift airfoil - good for slow flight and landings - but not great for aerobatics - especially for inverted manuvers. I definetly get lots of attention with this plane here though - as I have the only RED one around these parts.

Happy flying!

[RetroAcro]

Thanks for the input - truly appreciated - I've been in contact so far with the folks up in Rocky Mountain house - which I'll guess is about 1.2 - 1.4hours or so from here by air - but over some nasty mountains - I fly in similar mountains almost every day but I also respect that there are few days when it's actually safe for us in these Light aircrafts to simply breeze across the Rockies - and or the coastal range - if you are headed to Vancouver or the Island. They have a nice contest each year in Rocky mountain house I was invited to go last year but had only got my plane - certified for flight in August - so not quite ready yet for that. Now I am - or near ready - and of course anyone can continue to benift from the exerience of other's - no matter if they are a experienced maybe retired - commercial airline pilot - and or a CFI - etc... I'm aways open to learning . This is a nice stepping stone to bigger and better - acro machines - I'm already beginning to think that rather than pumping more $$ coin into this RV4 - once I get my feet wet in competition etc... I will likely want to sell it and get a pitts and or a laser or something else I can fly safely - but also compete at higher levels and do more challenging figures as well. The RV4 is'nt bad - but it has it' s limitations - it's not just power - it's basic design it for a fun - and relativily easy to fly - sport aircraft - that is inexpensive but for the money is fast and fun. it's all that for sure - going from my tommie to this was a great move for me - I've had cherokee's - cessna's etc... but this by far is the most fun I've had yet flying. I knew that aerobatics would be for me - because my son and I are roller coater "finantics" and have been to many of the "big" one's through the US. flying aerobatics for me is like most people doing normal circuts - it's normal. Not only do I love it - but I'm pretty good at it - becuase it comes natural to me and it's not "scary" - or freaky - although most of the poeple I talk to are pretty freaked out - I try and explain it's like anything else - if you do it correctly it's not more dangerous than normal flying. Yes I can't wait to do more! I was thinking of posting my RV4 - on Barnstormer's not so much for sale but for trade - for someone that has a one seat - aerobatic machine that say wants to up grade to a 2 seat sport aircraft. Yes I can put more power under the bonnet - and add - fuel injection or an ellison carb and inverted oil system etc... costing me maybe 15G or so total to do this - or more. But it's still what it is - it's designed to go 200mph not 140 - 160mph and be fully aerobatic - also it's got a high lift airfoil - good for slow flight and landings - but not great for aerobatics - especially for inverted manuvers. I definetly get lots of attention with this plane here though - as I have the only RED one around these parts.

Happy flying!

Frank, you can win in Sportsman with your non-inverted system RV-4 as is. But it will take lots of practice and critiquing to get to this level. Even if you bought a Pitts or Laser, it would take the same amount of effort to learn to fly the figures at this level. The Pitts or Laser will simply allow for the potential to move a couple categories higher than Sportsman should you really get hooked. My advice would be to to hold onto the RV for the moment...which is maybe the best all-around flying sport plane period. Work on flying it at a level that would score well in Sportsman (whether you actually want to fly a contest or not). This will give you a great foundation. It sounds like you're getting a little "bored" with RV aerobatics. Competition precision will give you quite a bit to work on until your skills truly outgrow the airplane. The brief negative G exposure during Sportsman maneuvers won't hurt anything. Just be wary of (and monitor) potential oil loss during long practice sessions if you do this.

And it doesn't have to be about competition. I used to fly an RV-3, and got to the point where you are now. I ended up buying a Pitts, not specifically to compete, but partly because I wanted more capability...but mostly because I've wanted a Pitts my whole life. I will admit that in the 5 years I flew aerobatics in the RV, I did not actually get to the point of being "better" than the airplane, even though lots of folks told me I was "good". Looking back, I would not consider my skills that "good" at the time. The thing is, that the better you get, the higher the level you compare yourself to, and you might not ever consider yourself truly "good"...at least I don't. When I win a world title, I might say differently. :-)

If you do "upgrade", to a Pitts or Laser type, I would suggest do so because it's simply what you want, without consideration to possible competition aspirations. Think of competition as possibly something you also "get" to do with your airplane, rather than the sole focus of your aerobatic flying. Not many people (even in the competition community) are that hardcore. Most don't fly more than a couple contests a year. You've gotta enjoy your airplane the other 50 weeks out of the year. :-)

[WLIU]

Getting back to the original purpose of this thread.

The photo below is me and my Pitts S-2A at the IAC National Championships in September 2008. That year I came home able to claim that I was one of the top 10 Sportsman pilots in the US.



And yes, I fly a Pitts because I can. Thank you Curtis.

Wes
N78PS

[AndyNZ]

Gidday Slackie,

It has gone full circle. Re-registered STX, and did pt 135 out of Rangiora for a short time before returning to QN to be operated by the Wakatipu Aeroclub. I have been helping out with ratings/spin training etc. The new eng is going great, but it will need a big birthday sooner or later I think. Fabric getting a bit tired particularly on the top wing..
Hows things up your way?

Some gorgeous aeroplanes folks, don't know where to start!
Have attached a photo of our machine, an S1C with sparcraft wings, taken in the late 1970s. Photos to follow in the months ahead as we get through the re-build. We have owned it 2 years and it hasn't flown since 1992. It will be quite a unique machine once we're finished with it!


cheers,

Andy