Parking in the North 40

[John Carrier]

I believe they only T em in in the North 40 when it's particularly soupy and they've lost parts of the camping area and need to pack people in tighter in the remaining space....

Tailing has been common practice since the early 80's simply given demand for real estate. The only time FLO deviates from this is when conditions affect safety of aircraft or people (e.g., wet grounds), the area cannot provide an appropriate taxiway, or the weight, size, or type of aircraft necessitates special handling.

[Cary]

I've camped in the North 40, the South 40 (north Fon du lac), and the far North 40.5 (north side of 27), and I've never felt cramped anywhere, with a 4 person Big Agnes tent with vestibule. I generally place my tent on the left (pilot's) side of the airplane, either forward of the wing or behind the wing, depending on what the nearby tenters have done. It fits either place. Unless you're carrying a portable palace, there's plenty of room, regardless of T-ing.

Cary

[turtle]

Best follow the rule of thumb - your tent should mainly fit within the span of one of your wings, understanding that there is some tolerance beyond (roughly 1 foot or so).

So three people in a Tri-Pacer are expected to use a smaller tent than three people in a 172. Makes perfect sense. Maybe we should all duct tape air mattresses to the end of our wings as soon as we land so we can be treated equally.

One more reason why AV 2012 was my last.

[fentho]

Why do these seemingly intelligent forums need to degerate into trite snipe comments? You don't like a suggestion? Say so politely and come up with one of your own (or leave the discussion to those of us who enjoy solving issues thru adult discourse!).

[Cary]

Well, let's see. A short wing Piper has a wingspan just over 29', the cabin is about 40" wide, so each wing must be about just under 13' wide. A typical 4 person tent is about 10' long. Where's the problem?

Being able to fly is a blessing. Being able to enjoy the camaraderie of others who enjoy flying is a blessing. Being able to camp with them is a blessing. Life is so short. Why do some folks always find something to complain about?

After last year's mid-week storm, which destroyed a number of tents, I had some tent poles bent, but they were fixable, and my sleeping bag got wet. My "neighbor" to the east had his family's whole camping outfit literally destroyed--not fixable at all. I was commiserating with him at the laundromat as he and his wife were attempting to dry out their belongings. I made some comment that this sure bungled up their vacation, and his comment said it all: "Yeah, but things happen." Then he said that it was time to replace all of their stuff anyway, it was all several years old and getting pretty worn, and maybe we'd see each other next year.

A bit different from Turtle's approach to life, huh?

Cary

[eaajen]

Hi. I've been there in person many times, of course, and I've had bad parking experiences in the N 40, but I also looked at a satellite photo of Google Earth, there, of the N 40.

I'm seeing what I've remembered: Wingtips are perhaps 2 feet from the wing of the adjacent airplane, facing same way, and the T'd airplanes are also spaced maybe 2-3 feet apart, facing the opposite way---meaning that the wings of one airplane facing East (say), are only 2-3 feet from the elevators of planes facing the opposite way, also. (I note some rows with some twins in them are not T'd.)

You can see this, yourself, by using Google Earth.

I see tents in places cramped together, and one tent actually nudged (what I think is) too far out into the taxilane, because it is surrounded by 4 tents near it that are crowding it out. (If I were a parker, there, I'd probably think we'd need to help him move his tent to somewhere not in the taxilane. I see a white one, by a moving twin, a purple one a row to the West behind another moving twin...)

CONCERNS AND NOTE:

NOTE:
I spoke with Rod about this last year at OSH: The problem ISN'T one of trying to fit everyone in. Wrong. The problem is in the year-of-manufacture they've designated can go to the SOUTH 40 to relieve congestion. The South 40 almost never fills, and they don't T because they have lots of room. I have volunteered there for years, in years past, as a biker/parker. If they changed it from 1970-cut-off to a 1980-cut-off, or so, then that would relieve congestion in the N 40. They may still T, but may be able to do so with greater wing-tip spacing---getting more planes in, utilizing space in the S 40.

CONCERNS:
I have parked in the N 40 many times, in past, and walked the area every year I've been there. Conditions are too cramped. A little elbow room is very helpful to a lot of things (from preventing people trying to put their tents in taxilanes all the way up to, and never forgetting, attendee enjoyment, which is why they come and spend their money, right?) I have had a number of concerns about the cramped conditions, and this year, I hope to come, again, thogh this time I'll be in my 2009 SportCruiser, an LSA, which I think needs to park in the N 40. It's a small plane. I've had a problem in years past with my tent leaking during famous OSH rains, and I've been told to get a Cabellas tent, which I now have. It's not huge, but it's larger than will fit if we're packed tightly, or will be actually adjacent to neighbor's or something.

And I'm thinking: Why? So the South 40 guys can keep wide open fields?

I fear the S 40 likes it's space and won't want to give it up, but all the land at OSH should be enjoyed by all the attendees, and I see no reason why an adjiustment can't be made.

That said, I would rather expect an adjustment won't be made, so I'm just hoping someone will say something that will help me figure out a way to have a more enjoyable stay. (I fly in from L.A., a long way, and seeing OSH means a lot to me.)

Having a sign to show them enroute to parking is a good one, though I fear of limited and unreliable use. If cramped, departing VFR and arriving again to take chances at another spot is possibility. I get there usually 2-3 days before show starts, trying to get better parking..., so I could fly out and return. And then, if it's really bad, just leave and try again next year.

And all so So 40 can keep its fields?

Rog Hightower agreed. Hopefully sometime the wheels will turn.

Jen

[FlyingRon]

Well that's not quite true. It's been peaking out almost right at capacity the past few years. It just about hits the end of the field when people start leaving further up and we start backfilling. There were a couple of years ago when the show was doing real good that we ended up shuffling people out past the "burn line" south of the end of taxiway P (where the "grass runway" is now). The main show has been encroaching on the South 40 steadily. Last year we got some chalet for a luggage company plopped right down in the middle of the taxiway which meant we had to lose two rows of parking to relocate it.

Note that some of the empty spaces in the south 40 isn't available for parking. The area off the end of the ultralight runway is clear space. There's several rows of ultralight parking and exhibition area that is largely a ghost town since light sport took off. There are several rows of EAA mandated VIP parking not under Vintage's discretion. Most of the area to the west side of the road south of aircraft repair is held open for the pre-show weekend for pre-arranged type club arrivals. This year a large hunk of prime real estate was reserved for the mass cub arrival (which got filled). We also lost 20' feet of each row on the flight line after the dumbass forgot to lock the tail wheel on takeoff in the DC-3 and ended up in the ditch. Thank god we didn't lose more when Jack Roush dropped his jet nearly on top of where I usually stand during airport operations.

The south 40 eligibility is based on year of manufacture under the judging rules for Vintage. It's steadily crept up over the twenty years I've been coming from the end of 1965 to the end of 1970.

[eaajen]

...and the South 40 is still WIDE open compared to the cramped North 40, never really filling, because they don't T there.

Nearly fill in recent years?

The N. 40 fills and shuts down every year, it seems, while the S 40 doesn't T....

I've worked parking planes in S. 40 many years, and whatever is thought of "filling" there is a wide-open walk in the park compared to the N. 40.

[John Carrier]

There is no argument that the N40 parks tighter than the S40. The N40 is intended for general purpose aircraft parking and camping. The S40 has been designated for parking and camping of the showplane categories (e.g., Warbirds, Homebuilt, IAC, Vintage, and Seaplane). Spacing is more generous given the need to view / judge aircraft and a general desire to keep the flighline area less congested for safety reasons. In addition, many of the aircraft in this area are tailwheel types, which require additional clearance and visibility to taxi and park. The further south one goes, the grass surface becomes less refined, which can also be a problem for nosewheel aircraft (e.g., ground clearance of prop, steering ability).

On a positive note, the N40 does enjoy some amenities that those past the end of 36 ("God's country") can only dream off (e.g., shower facilities, food venue, proximity to the grounds, etc.).

[Bill Greenwood]

Sell that Tri Pacer and buy a motorglider to fly to EAA next year. Viola, plenty of wing area to park under.