Really Dumb FAA Move

[champ driver]

You are correct Bill that Aspen is not a one way runway, but most of the time it is for most turbine operators. Most jets will choose to land straight in rather than circle, and some company operations manuals may prohibit it. Also, probably most jets are limited to no more than a 10kt tailwind for takeoff and landings in their limitations section of the aircraft manual.
Because of the elevation and length of the runway, it can get real short in the summer if you want to go somewhere farther than maybe Denver. The truth is, that there's a huge performance penalty on takeoff, jets always have to plan on losing an engine at near rotation speed, and be able to clear obsticles at the end of the runway, let alone the ones farther down valley.

I do agree with you 100% that ATC should not do anything to negatively impact safety. Pilots should be assertive enough to say to ATC anytime that they need to do something for safety and not let themselves be talked in to something they shouldn't or couldn't do.
An example of this is at my home town airport. Almost all the time when landing my Champ, the tower will ask me "where are you parking" while still rolling out, sometimes the tail is still up when they ask. At that point I'm still flying the plane and I don't want to be distracted until I get off the runway and have things under control. I wont answer them until I'm clear of the runway, then we'll talk about parking information. I'm sure they just do this out of habit by trying to expedite traffic. I don't think they realize that I just can't touchdown and jump on the brakes and make a certain turnoff like a Cessna 172.

As for the other aspect of the west side taxiways and length. I'm not familiar with the latest local politics and what may be the future plans for the airport. I do agree that I would not like to see larger jets in my hometown airport too. Unfortunately Aspen is a beautiful place and that attracts a lot of people, and some of them have deep pockets that has a certain amount of influence.

[PA11]

Bill,

91.3 states "The pilot in command of an aircraft is directly responsible for, and is the final authority as to, the operation of that aircraft." If you think that ATC is influencing your decision to operate safely, you have every right per the regulations to say the magic word 'unable'. This isn't about the FAA trying to dictate how you operate your aircraft...this is about ATC sequencing the massive amount of arrivals and departures into an airport that was never designed to handle such traffic.

Also, pilots are creatures of habit. We ALWAYS do the run-up at the end of the runway...that is, for the paved-runway folks. What about on an icy taxiway? How about on a gravel strip? Or even on floats? As a pilot, you have to adapt to the situation at hand. Surely, we can all fly the magenta line from A to B, but when something gets in the way, we need to re-think the magenta line philosophy.

[Mike M]

...When a pilot of a small piston engined plane like me in my Bonanza calls for taxi to the runway, the tower asks, "Will you need a run up?" This is really dumb, of course we need and should do a run up, just as we were taught when we learned to fly. Them asking this over and over, every time before taxi is not going to talk me out of what I learned and what I know is right and safe....

a friendly question is that intimidating? thin skin, huh? gosh, they're just worried about the thousands of folks who DON'T do runups before EVERY takeoff and crash and burn right before they make it to 200'. after all, that there hi altitude makes some flatlanders a bit oxygen-deprived and they might forget stuff. and since when is a Bonanza a small plane? Cri-Cri, now, there's a small plane.

[MEdwards]

a friendly question is that intimidating? thin skin, huh?

Agreed. There's a simple answer to the question: "Affirmative." Or even "Yes, thanks." The latter may not be ICAO approved, but it gets the point across.

[Flyfalcons]

Agreed that asking a pilot if he needs to do a runup is definitely not an intimidation tactic. You're the PIC, you do what you need to operate your plane safely, whether it be a Fly Baby or 737.

[Bill Greenwood]

Pa11 and Ryan,
Yes, I can resist the FAA suggestion to skip or do the checklist in a less than ideal manner, and do it as I know and was taught.
But let's have some balance, when it comes pay time at the end of the month let's all pilots ask the tower folks, "Do you really need that pay check this month?"
Or when they go to a restaurant, have the server ask if they "really need him to wash his hands before he handles their food, or" should the doctor really use fresh gloves before examining them?"
They can always say yes.

And let's ask all jet pilots if the want to cancel IFR on clear days as soon as they contact approach or if they want to land Rwy 33 anytime there is a tailwind.

The tower people, like any FAA people should be doing things that encourage safety or at best be neutral, not be an obstacle, even a small one to doing it the right way. And there are many student pilots at APA who may start doing the wrong thing.

And PA11, there are many times when there is hardly any traffic here as well as the crowded times.

[Bill Greenwood]

Champdriver, you hit on another annoying thing ATC often does and that of talking to you and even giving directions while you are still in the landing roll.

I usually just ignore them myself. They also love to give you takeoff directions and clearance freqencies whild you are taxiing on the times when you are using departure control. I usually point out to them than I don't have a secretary to record all that while I am taxiing.

I once took an IRF refresher from a Chicago company and the CFI was also a controller. He said 92% of controllers are not pilots and really have little clue on flying an airplane.

Controllers at their best are like the ones at Oshkosh, at their worst it seems like they think they are getting paid by the word.

By the way, I don't think that in VMC, going right downwind and right base to land on rwy 33 is considered a circling approach, it is just a pattern, just like some jets who come from the south and land on 15.
The airlines do it often, whenever the tailwind on 15 gets up. They don't land with a 15 knot tailwind. Maybe the corporate pilots don't consider the tailwind.

I think a circling approach would be to fly the LDA to rwy 15, then continue and turn left downwind and circle back to land on 15. I have ridden on United one night when they did this and they were barely vmc below the clouds on downwind, but made the landing.

[Flyfalcons]

Bill you're insane if you think the tower controller is suggesting you do anything. They need to know for planning purposes. Just like when IFR and you need to divert, ATC will ask you the reason for the divert. They need to know this information. For you to even hint that the phraseology the controller used was "Do you really need to do a runup" is insulting to anyone reading your posts.

[Bill Greenwood]

Ryan, perhaps calling someone "insane" on this forum is a bit insulting, is it not?
I don't think we have ever met, but it is obvious that, at least from your side, we have more of a discord than just a difference on opinion on a controller procedure. So feel free not to read my posts.

But to try to answer your point: pilots of piston airplanes have been doing a pre take off check list for as long as I can remember, certainly since I was taught at National Air College in 1979, and this involves the flap setting, transponder on, etc. and mags and prop check which is best done right before takeoff.

This has been the correct procedure for the 34years that I have been a pilot and has been verified when I flew with Lew Monger who was a senior FAA official at Denver Stapleton as well as numerous other instructors and check pilots, including a man who was twice T-Birds leader, an Israeli ace, two senior check pilots for United, a RCAF F-18 instructor, and instructors at Flightsafety, as well as a Navy Top Gun instructor and CFIs from both Warbird Adventures and Stallion 51 in Florida,and a 5 time winner of the Unlimited Gold at Reno,and 2 CAF check pilots, and 2 combat vets of air war in Vietnam ( F-4 & A-6),and a Battle of Britain pilot who was Canada all time highest hours instructor.. I think it is reasonable to assume that I was doing it correctly as regards the run up part of flying, since none of these people ever said to do otherwise.I also rode with Steve Hinton once and guess what, he did the run up the same way. A couple of these guys were even big time corporate jet pilots,as well as airline pilots. I almost forgot to mention another EAA CFI, Duane Cole, who you may not have heard of as he wasn't a jet pilot and not even much of a talker,but he has a place in the EAA museum.

So the controller could make a pretty reasonable assumption that I was going to do a check list and run up before take off. There is no need to ask, any more than he would ask a jet pilot if he really needs the full length of the runway available for takeoff or landing.
And when I finish that check and am ready for takeoff, I will call the tower and say so.
The only reason for the controller to ask is to not so subtley suggest that I skip this so as to figuartively move us to the back of the bus.

And I may be underating the controller. Perhaps he really has discovered a new and better way of flying and is really not just the newcomer that he sounds like. I'd never know, because unlike in the past when we had experienced folks like Dick Pittman ( the one the IFR intersection was named after) local pilots are no longer welcome to visit the tower, they have a separate parking area, and I have almost no interaction or knowledge of who is on the radio there.

[Hal Bryan]

"You're insane" is unacceptable, flyfalcons.