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Thread: Phase 1

  1. #11
    steveinindy's Avatar
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    I can state with some certainty that simply needing to record engine temps, etc. won't get you there.
    AC 23-8B - Flight Test Guide for Certification of Part 23 Airplanes
    http://www.faa.gov/regulations_polic...cumentID/74377

    23.1419-2D - Certification of Part 23 Airplanes for Flight in Icing Conditions
    http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgAdvisoryCircular.nsf/0/cf3b88901453a59a8625730d006e4993/$FILE/AC23-1419-2D-Change1.pdf

    That should get you there. It should also get you a request to have your head examined but then again, if we're going to test the design, let's freaking test it.
    Last edited by steveinindy; 08-27-2011 at 08:02 PM.

  2. #12

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    You cannot fly with a safety pilot. You cannot receive instruction. You can fly with a second person IF the operating limitations (which you write and can change later) requre 2 people. The FSDO near me has told local builders that taking notes and recording instrument indications are not sufficient tasks for requiring 2 people. (A video camera could do that, they say.) But the FSDO has also indicated that two people may be required in flight for testing the CG / weight envelope. The second person (not necessarily a pilot) would have the job of shifting (their own?) weight within the cockpit from the known-safe position to the CG position to be tested.

    Of course I've heard other FSDO representatives state that there is never any valid reason for 2 people to be in the cockpit of an amateur-built experimental aircraft during flight testing.

    Even if you can get the FSDO to OK it in writing, you might want to check with your insurance company to make sure they won't contest the coverage if something happened during a phase-1, 2-pilot operation.

  3. #13
    Eric Witherspoon's Avatar
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    Now that post about adding the 2nd person for weight testing actually makes some sense to me. I was all on the side that if it's a simple, 2-place, single-engine, fixed-gear, fixed-pitch-prop, etc. - that there's no way, ever, that we should even try to push the rules by putting a 2nd person in there and try to make up some claim of "essentialness". For my Sonex, that was no problem. Higher weight / aft cg was the last testing I did, and it was pretty easy to add a "passenger" in the form of 60-lb bags of cement, one bag at a time, with the 4th bag reduced to 40 lbs, for a total of 220 lbs of "passenger". But now I'm building a tandem-seater. I really, REALLY don't want multiple bags balanced on the skinny seat between my feet. In the side-by-side, I could push the load around some if I had to, but in a tandem, load shifts (falls into the stick), game over. The whole point of all this is safety, and multiple very heavy bags of stuff balanced next to a stick that you can't get to in flight doesn't sound all that good to me. Then there's getting that stuff in and out of a fabric-covered airframe between the wings, etc - yes, it's a biplane... I guess I'll store the idea away for the program letter and just write it in and see what happens...
    Murphy's 13th: Every solution breeds new problems...

    http://www.spoonworld.com

  4. #14
    Gary.Sobek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brmmd View Post
    During the initial 40 hour fly off can I fly with a "safety pilot"?
    Absolutely NOT.

    IF you can convince a DAR or the FAA that you need a 2nd person in the airplane, they may allow you BUT you will only be allowed to fly the airplane with a required CREW of two from here on out.

  5. #15
    steveinindy's Avatar
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    BUT you will only be allowed to fly the airplane with a required CREW of two from here on out.
    Unless you have the operating limitations revised.

  6. #16

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    Check AC 90-116, 9-23-14, Add'l Pilot Program for Phase I Flight Test. Apparently the FAA now believes there may be a legitimate reason to have a qualified pilot on board to help especially in case of LOC or engine out situations. The bulk of this AC appears to describe a formal vetting process to determine a second pilot's eligibility as either a QP (qualified pilot) or OP (observer pilot) then describes some possible scenarios in which having a 2nd pilot may be appropriate.

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