Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 15

Thread: Phase 1

  1. #1

    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    1

    Phase 1

    During the initial 40 hour fly off can I fly with a "safety pilot"?

  2. #2
    Anymouse's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Homeless
    Posts
    224
    No.
    I'll come up with something profound

  3. #3

    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    73
    I thought the rules stated you could fly with the "essential crew" or something like that....just deem the safety pilot essential. Probably one of those grey areas

  4. #4

    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    St. Louis/Omaha
    Posts
    113
    Quote Originally Posted by uavmx View Post
    I thought the rules stated you could fly with the "essential crew" or something like that....just deem the safety pilot essential. Probably one of those grey areas
    How do you "deem" a safety pilot "essential"? Assuming that this a design with a required crew of one (i.e., the pilot), you're saying the plane can't be flown unless the PIC is wearing a vision-limiting device? No, that's not going to cut it.
    Anxiety is nature's way of telling you that you've already goofed up.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by uavmx View Post
    I thought the rules stated you could fly with the "essential crew" or something like that....just deem the safety pilot essential. Probably one of those grey areas
    Well...not THAT gray. Unless the operating limitations require a second pilot, I doubt the FAA would accept the explanation.

    That said, we used to have a Tech Counselor up here who would make first flights with the builder along. The builder's job was to monitor the engine while the pilot concentrated on airmanship.

    I'm not saying it was *legal*, just that he did it.

    In one case, the engine quit at altitude and the pilot quickly lowered the nose. He told the builder (the guy supposed to be monitoring the engine) that the engine quit, and the guy replied, "No it didn't." He was looking at the tachometer and oil pressure, which stayed high as the prop was windmilling.

    Ron Wanttaja

  6. #6

    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Clarklake, MI
    Posts
    1,229
    Well, I would say an absolute "no" is not the correct response to the question.

    ref: Sport Aviation, November 1983, a Jack Cox article about Fred Keller's Rutan Defiant (excerpt provided):

    He had the airframe completed to the extent thatit would be test flown in early July, so, as planned, BurtRutan came to Anchorage to do the honors. Since the twoof them planned to record a lot of data on the test flights,FAA permitted Fred to accompany Burt. The first flightwas made on July 16, lasting 1.3 hours and resulting in 3 pages of notes.

    So I guess it would be safe to say if you can convince the FAA you need a "safety pilot" it would not be out of the realm of possibility. I wouldn't think the FAA gets many such request so I'd guess their first reaction would be one of surprise.
    Last edited by martymayes; 08-27-2011 at 12:37 PM.

  7. #7

    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    73
    yeah, I think that is the way around it. If you have a flight test program, and that includes recording data, then the second person is a crew member for the purposes of tracking data

  8. #8

    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Marietta, GA
    Posts
    377
    Quote Originally Posted by uavmx View Post
    yeah, I think that is the way around it. If you have a flight test program, and that includes recording data, then the second person is a crew member for the purposes of tracking data
    I'm not sure that'll hold up to a ramp check or in front of the accident investigation board.

    The only way I'd even consider it would be if the operating limitations specifically mentioned a second crewmember for data recording. Otherwise, a kneeboard and a pencil are the time proven tools for data recording during test flights.

  9. #9
    steveinindy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Indiana
    Posts
    1,449
    If you have a flight test program, and that includes recording data, then the second person is a crew member for the purposes of tracking data
    I informally ran it past the FSDO here a few months back and they said it was plausible if one were working on an entirely new design or a significantly new design. I happen to be doing so which is why I had inquired about it. The guy I spoke with said it would have to be included in the operating limitations or that I could simply ask for the operating instructions to stipulate two pilots are required (which is how I plan to fly it anyhow, especially when doing IFR operations in actual IMC) and then amend them after the fact if I want to remove the restriction.

    If you're just afraid to or uncomfortable with flying your new RV-6, you'll have a much tougher time most likely.

  10. #10
    EAA StaffEAA Staff / Moderator Charlie Becker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Oshkosh, WI
    Posts
    48
    According to Advisory Circular 20-27 http://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Advisory_Circular/AC 20-27G.pdf

    14 e. Restrictions.
    (1) Carrying Passengers. You may not carry passengers while you are restricted to the flight test area or during any portion of your phase I flight test program. We suggest you use a tape or video recorder for recording readings and other similar tasks. If you need an additional crewmember for a particular flight test, specify that in your application program letter for the airworthiness certificate. We will list this need in your operating limitations.
    (2) Flight Instruction. You may not receive flight instruction during your flight test.

    I can state with some certainty that simply needing to record engine temps, etc. won't get you there. Nor will transition training (personally I'd like to see this changed to allow transition training after say 10 hours). But you can always ask, I've seen some weird things approved out in the field on a one off basis!
    Sonex flight testing complete. Building a Super Cub clone, check it out at www.facebook.com/piratecub

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •