Icon A5 Request For Weight Increase Exemption Status

[rwanttaja]

So if 25% of the total accidents at the end of 5 yrs are stall/spin, would that indicate the weight exemption for "safety" is a failure?

Well, it *would* mean it's better than the Searey, a similar airplane.

I took a look at my database. In about 30% of Searey accidents from 1998 to 2011 (14 out of 44), the NTSB referenced either a stall or a lack of airspeed control. "Stall/Spin" was specifically stated in only two of the 14 cases, but most of the cases appeared to have occurred too low for rotation to start.

In my opinion, the claimed resistance to spinning itself will be of little consequence (few GA accidents occur high enough for a spin to establish itself), but IIRC the stall characteristics themselves are improved as well. If so, this will certainly help. The Searey has a relatively low rate of fatalities (lower than the Piper PA-28 series, in fact) and it will be interesting to compare to the Icon, with its claimed occupant-protection features.

Ron Wanttaja

[Eaglerhythm]

Well, it *would* mean it's better than the Searey, a similar airplane.

I took a look at my database. In about 30% of Searey accidents from 1998 to 2011 (14 out of 44), the NTSB referenced either a stall or a lack of airspeed control. "Stall/Spin" was specifically stated in only two of the 14 cases, but most of the cases appeared to have occurred too low for rotation to start.

In my opinion, the claimed resistance to spinning itself will be of little consequence (few GA accidents occur high enough for a spin to establish itself), but IIRC the stall characteristics themselves are improved as well. If so, this will certainly help. The Searey has a relatively low rate of fatalities (lower than the Piper PA-28 series, in fact) and it will be interesting to compare to the Icon, with its claimed occupant-protection features.

Ron Wanttaja

Sounds like this topic to the end after ICON received it, lol

[kmhd1]

It really does have cup holders.... lol!

[kmhd1]

Where's FloatsFlyer? I thought for sure you'd have posted something since the news broke of the weight exemption being granted given your support of the A5...

[Frank Giger]

As much as I've ragged on the Icon, I do hope they're successful. Who doesn't think airplanes are just cool and want to see them doing what they do?

I do foresee a nice market of barely used Icons up for sale in short order, though. If we half the usual student pilot failure rate and then apply that to the one third of pre-orders to non-pilots....

And I hope like hell some of those non-pilots aren't thinking that aircraft appreciate and that it's an investment.

[zaitcev]

I also think that Icon is a net positive. Forum posters seem to think that GA investment is a zero-sum game, whereas it's just NOT TRUE. So they keep talking how Icon sucked up the investment. Here's the thing: this investment would not go to other GA entrants.

The point about getting used Icons is also true, although it should be noted that they aren't going to be cheap. Look at prices of used Eclipse 500, they are shoulder to shoulder with King Airs.

[kmhd1]

I do foresee a nice market of barely used Icons up for sale in short order, though. If we half the usual student pilot failure rate and then apply that to the one third of pre-orders to non-pilots....

Sign me up! I'll take 2....

[Floatsflyer]

Where's FloatsFlyer? I thought for sure you'd have posted something since the news broke of the weight exemption being granted given your support of the A5...

I'm right here, thanks for thinking about me. I got home from Oshkosh about 5pm yesterday after a gorgeous flight of 4.7 hrs--blue skies and everything unlimited. So different from the weather we encountered flying out last Sunday.

Kmhd1, I'm not sure what I could add here except to say it feels soooo good to be spot on about the timing of the announcement.

For all the "doodads" and "gizmos" people on this thread(you know who you are), I spoke to an Icon VP who told me that, despite the 80 lbs. increase, I still can't get both retracts and electric in-cockpit folding wing. BUMMER...told him I don't want it then. First deliveries are expected next spring/summer after they complete 4 conformity aircraft for the FAA.

[kmhd1]

I'm right here, thanks for thinking about me. I got home from Oshkosh about 5pm yesterday after a gorgeous flight of 4.7 hrs--blue skies and everything unlimited. So different from the weather we encountered flying out last Sunday.

Kmhd1, I'm not sure what I could add here except to say it feels soooo good to be spot on about the timing of the announcement.

For all the "doodads" and "gizmos" people on this thread(you know who you are), I spoke to an Icon VP who told me that, despite the 80 lbs. increase, I still can't get both retracts and electric in-cockpit folding wing. BUMMER...told him I don't want it then. First deliveries are expected next spring/summer after they complete 4 conformity aircraft for the FAA.

Nice! Welcome back. I was really bummed that I couldn't make it out there this year.

I heard it was unseasonably cool so that must have been a nice change from the usual heat.

What did you think of the 3D CAD treatment to the show plane?

That is dissappointing that you can't have BOTH retractable gear and electric folding wings. They have 170lbs of headroom - why not use it.... :-D

Did they have an updated mock up of the cockpit with the new AoA gauge incorporated into it?

[Eaglerhythm]

I'm right here, thanks for thinking about me. I got home from Oshkosh about 5pm yesterday after a gorgeous flight of 4.7 hrs--blue skies and everything unlimited. So different from the weather we encountered flying out last Sunday.

Kmhd1, I'm not sure what I could add here except to say it feels soooo good to be spot on about the timing of the announcement.

For all the "doodads" and "gizmos" people on this thread(you know who you are), I spoke to an Icon VP who told me that, despite the 80 lbs. increase, I still can't get both retracts and electric in-cockpit folding wing. BUMMER...told him I don't want it then. First deliveries are expected next spring/summer after they complete 4 conformity aircraft for the FAA.

I also happened to talk several ICON's board members at EAA last Tuesday, looks like they are all excited. Maybe I can help you to get a test flight next summer once its production plane available