The wait on the exemption and possably just the thought of the exemption is killing LSA manufactures. Just wait and see how many will me gone before the ruling does or ever passes
The wait on the exemption and possably just the thought of the exemption is killing LSA manufactures. Just wait and see how many will me gone before the ruling does or ever passes
I've said the same thing. That said, the LSA spec is arbitrary and resulted in a set of aircraft and manufacturers that wouldn't exist without that arbitrary set of rules. The last thing LSA manufacturers want is for their design point to go away.Originally Posted by Tlb67
This is true should the FAA rule in the affirmitive on the Rule.
People owning the "purpose built" LSA's (Remos, Flight design ect.) will take a huge hit.
On the flipside maybe the days of the $40-50K Piper Cub and Airknocker will wane...
I also know of 2 pilots who will have much pulling of hair and grinding of teeth...they sold RV-8's to go light sport...
So should the rule actually happen there will be winners and losers just as in any game. It sucks and it doesn't suck. It depends what you own/want to own.
I still contend (as long as it didn't reference any speeds) that a cap of 200HP would be more in line with the current "more than 200HP is considered High Performance" standard already in vogue in the FAR's.
Alas nobody asked me...
Chris
Last edited by Hiperbiper; 01-12-2013 at 11:37 PM.
You Tube only proves that more airplanes have crashed due to Video Camaras than any other single reason...
The medical issue is not what is killing LSA, its the $130,000 price tag!
Yes a brand new LSA is expensive , but take alook at material cost alone to build one
Tenn- Air is tring to offer a SLSA for 75,000 price range
you are talking roughly 20,000 for the kit /materials , 25,000 aprox for engine , at least 7,000 to 10,000 for avionics thats over 50,00 already with out any labor costs or paint(paint is cost are very undestimated)
Pete`s 750 is very reasanable cost wise . I know the cost of composite material make the composite type aircraft higher
I am not saying they are cheap!! I couldnt afford anyone but Im saying right know at this moment in time with the possable exemtion you have customers that would buy one , holding off and waiting for a ruling and the manufatures are really hurting It seems it has always benn dificult to be in the airplane buisness
Well yes of course some buyers will take a wait and see, but let's remember that there are some people who can't afford to get a PPL but can afford the Sport Pilot License so there is a market. In addition, many of the the guys who will benefit from the "waiver" can't afford a new LSA. I'd bet most of the people who take advantage of this new rule, if it comes to pass, will just continue to fly what they have been flying and save a few $ on the Medical Certification. All those Doc's who have AME certificates will be losing customers as well. The reality of the whole LSA thing is it was founded with the hope of building up the shrinking pilot population. It took too long to pass and the impact of "aircraft economics" reduced the potential market size. There have been many articles written recently forecasting a "shake-out" in the LSA industry, too many players fighting for too small a market. This will happen for more than one reason, it's called the "Free Market" and demand will increase when price falls just as prices rise when demand increases. The LSA market is not large and that is not due to the proposed waiver. I would argue that the waiver proposal is a direct response to the failure of the LSA effort to generate the impact that inspired its creation.
Joe
HAHA! 75k reasonable? that's funny, I mean really funny!, first off the engines should be 10k not 20-30k the price is SOOOOO inflated,Labor is only high (if it's high at all) because of poor production methods, painting processes are regulated but again it's about the volume and methods, you can justify it because of the overwhelming regulation and legal costs but it still doesn't make it "reasonable". I have a little over 20k in my experimental and I can assure you my building was anything but efficient.
Yes, you don't have to carry the insurance a manufacture has to carry, because they will be sued sooner or later.
KSCessnaDriver
ATP MEL, Commercial Lighter Than Air-Airship, SEL, CFI/CFII
Private SES
But it was educational...
Here's another way to look at it. The kit for an RV-12 is about $70k. That's everything but the paint. It doesn't include any assembly labor. Certainly, Van's and the others in the supply chain have a profit built into the kit price, but I'd look at $70k as the materials cost for a metal LSA aircraft. Add in labor (call it 500 hours at $50/hr to account for shop space, tools, utilities, etc.) plus $10k for painting the thing and you're at $105k before corporate overhead, taxes, insurance, and profit. Looking at it that way, $125k seems like a reasonable retail price for a similar LSA. Not that it is a reasonable value, but it is a reasonable price.
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