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  1. #1
    MEdwards's Avatar
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    Appearance fees

    Article on Avweb today:

    Jerry Yagen of Fighter Factory says they won't bring their recently completed Mosquito fighter bomber and a new-build version of an Me. 262 jet fighter to Oshkosh unless EAA pays them. EAA Acting President Jack Pelton says EAA won't pay for exhibits to come to Oshkosh.

    Can't say I disagree with either of them. Too bad, though.

    Did the jet truck, the jet powered outhouse, and the fire-breathing whatever it was all come for free?

  2. #2

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    I have never heard of anyone getting an appearance fee to bring a plane to Oshkosh, though there may have been some non public payment.

    One year they had a big British focus and I was specifically invited to bring a plane to show center. I got a courtesy car for free, I think, and a parking pass that went most places.

    Some people may get free housing, I am not sure about that. And EAA reimburses for fuel used to fly in the show, not enroute fuel.

    Jerry has some very special planes, and I'd love to see them there, and flying, but I hope EAA continues the tradition of the past. I'll probably phone Jerry, but I'd guess that he is not very flexible on this. Many people have spent a small fortune to restore some very rare planes and they naturally can expect a show to pay them as an attraction. But EAA has built something special at Oshkosh. If you own a special plane and want a high price to display it, then it will be priced out of many venues. I don't think many real pilots want to restore a plane just to have it sit in their hangar, nor do I want to miss out on some of the special places to attend like Oshkosh. I have not yet been to Jerry's place in Virginia but I hear it is great and I want to get there sometime.

    Maybe there is some way around it, like an outside sponsor offering a fee directly to Jerry to bring a plane.

    Let's take the money to be spent on Thunderbirds, which is substantial since they require housing and cars for many people if not outright payment for the planes, and use it to help make a good show in every other way.
    Last edited by Bill Greenwood; 01-10-2013 at 01:18 PM.

  3. #3
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    Jack says it would be a "fundamental policy change" to provide appearance fees for aircraft to attend AV. Does anyone know how long this has been in effect? I'm in favour because it keeps admission costs down.

  4. #4

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    As a former airshow performer I can tell you that Sun-N-Fun and Airventure are where everyone flys for 0$ to show off their act for the organizers of all of the other airshows. That and attending the ICAS convention are what everyone in the business wants to do.

    You have to be invited to perform at Sun-N-Fun or Airventure. I have to say that looking down at the flightline at Sun-N-Fun from overhead airshow center at 2PM was a highlight of my participation in the airshow business.

    Have lots of fun out there.

    Wes
    N78PS

  5. #5

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    In 30 or so years of going to airshows, there are some things that make it fun at least for my standpoint, and EAA has some of this.
    First of all, is it a cool place? It may be beautiful on its own like Aspen or Genesseo or historic like Duxford or Biggin Hill, or just a fun part of the country to be in or a place like Breckenridge or Chino that is great because the airshow or event has been built up to be special.

    And it may be special because of the planes itself or the pilots like Reno or Midland.

    next, and this is where EAA shines, is there something more to do than just the airshow? What if the weather is bad and there is no flying? Do you sit around bored and just swill beer or is there other things to do, both aviation related and perhaps no aviation like going out to good restaurants or some sightseeing like to the beach or Niagara Falls or similar?

    And how about the people, are there some fun and maybe like minded folks to spend your time with, and again this is a strength of EAA. I really love meeting lot's of people at EAA and sharing the time with them, even people who I may have little in common outside of aviation. Over the years I have met some fun characters this way, and it seems to me that pilots and EAA types are a bit more lively and just brighter than many run of the mill everyday people that you meet.

    I have gone to many events for free at my own expense, and at others I've gotten some significant $$ to bring a plane or two. There is no direct connection between how much, if any, you are getting paid and how much fun you have, at least not for me.. Nothing was better than the old shows Howard and Eddie, and Nelson, and Bill had at Breckenridge and all of it was on our own pocket except all the Bar B Q you could eat or beer you could drink, or monkey business that you could get into.

    It is very common to get a room and perhaps 100 gal or so of fuel, like Steve gave me at Chino, and possibly a rent a car when bringing a plane to a show, but a lot less common to get actual payment. If you have the only flying B-29 in the world you may get money or if you are someone special as a pilot, you may get paid.

    To me, sometimes the places with the big budgets, are not the most fun, and can be too rigid or have some downside like having to listen to lots of jet noise.
    But is always feels good to receive some actual money, not just the normal human feeling of being valued, but the idea that there is some rational profit chance in fun aviation, and at least you are not spending money as fast as we probably are.
    Last edited by Bill Greenwood; 01-10-2013 at 04:25 PM.

  6. #6

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    I can assure you that very few people make money doing airshows. Airshows are aeronautical vaudeville and have relatively thin budgets. We do them because we can, and we have real jobs to pay the mortgage.

    Most shows, as you note, will provide free fuel to performers and fly-by participants. Once upon a time I was in line at the fuel pump behind the late Dave Tallichet's B-17 at the end of an airshow. We were both loading performer going home fuel. He asked for 1,000 gallons. I waited while they loaded him up.

    That said, Oshkosh and Sun-N-Fun are the big performer show cases. In my case, we used Sun-N-Fun photos in marketing literature to land slots at our regional shows. OSH and SnF know that, so they can be selective about who they invite and we all went knowing that we bought our own fuel, hotel, and rental car. It pays off during the rest of the season and those costs are factored into pricing for the other events we performed at.

    So part of the airshow business is knowing how it works. In the last 15 years the business has evolved and you can no longer just show up with a T-6 for static display and expect any support or compensation. Everything costs more, budgets are tight, the FAA checks everything on airshow day. You have to work your participation out in advance. Most flying in airshow waivered airspace now requires some type of competency credential for what you might fly, be it a FAST card, airshow aerobatic competency credential, or even a skydiver PRO card. Behind all of the smoke and noise, its a business in multiple dimensions.

    Fly and be happy.

    Wes
    N78PS

  7. #7

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    Wes,I may be wrong these days, but I don't believe the FAA requires any sort of FAST card to fly in an airshow. If you are doing acro in waivered airspace, then an acro competency card is required, but this is nothing new, it has been that way for decades, even before the T-34 association came up with such a group called fast.

    The airshow may require proof of insurance or there may be a check of some credentials, but not requiring everyone to have a fast card.

    At EAA everyone that flies in the show, yes T-6s and even jets and t-28s can get show fuel, unless it has changed in the last few years.
    Last edited by Bill Greenwood; 01-10-2013 at 09:15 PM.

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