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Thread: ethanol-free gas

  1. #1

    ethanol-free gas

    For those of you looking for ethanol-free gas I found this site that you may be interested in:
    http://pure-gas.org/
    There is a link there to a petition:
    https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/pet...lable/lhq1qgW4
    They have a long way to go so pass it on if you like
    Thanks

  2. #2
    Aaron Novak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lost in time View Post
    For those of you looking for ethanol-free gas I found this site that you may be interested in:
    http://pure-gas.org/
    There is a link there to a petition:
    https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/pet...lable/lhq1qgW4
    They have a long way to go so pass it on if you like
    Thanks
    Oh Brother.........Honestly there are worse things ( from your fuel systems perspective ) they are putting in automotive fuel than the ethanol......they just dont get any attention.

  3. #3
    rosiejerryrosie's Avatar
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    Petitioning the White House will get as much response as whistling in the wind. These web based petitions are most frequently just a ruse to get your email address so you can be deluged with spam....
    Cheers,
    Jerry

    NC22375
    65LA out of 07N Pennsylvania

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    Chris Thomsen's Avatar
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    This link works as well for finding mogas: http://www.flyunleaded.com/airports.php

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron Novak View Post
    Oh Brother.........Honestly there are worse things ( from your fuel systems perspective ) they are putting in automotive fuel than the ethanol......they just dont get any attention.

    Hi Aaron,

    I wonder about this, too. Visiting the http://pure-gas.org website shows that a significant portion of the population has access to EtOH-free gasoline. It would be very useful to the membership if EAA revisited its use in small Continentals and Lycomings. Heck, a lot of these engines were designed for 73 (!) octane.

    Regardless, what are the parts of the fuel systems that need attention, that are harmed beyond what EtOH does? Because I agree with you; there's lots of potentially harmful things in modern mogas beyond EtOH.

    Thanks,

    Jeff

  6. #6
    FlyingRon's Avatar
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    I'm not sure what you're asking, Jeff. Revisited what use in small Continentals and Lycomings? The EAA already does 4 cyl stc's for non-EtOH gas. Petersen even does some six cyls.

    The best info I've seen on the perils of EtOH in airplane engines is the guys who are burning it in the RVs. The injected engines aren't too bad once you're careful with the fuel lines etc...
    However, they've had real serious reliability issues with EtOH and carbs.

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Boatright View Post
    It would be very useful to the membership if EAA revisited its use in small Continentals and Lycomings. Heck, a lot of these engines were designed for 73 (!) octane.
    Does anyone know what the octane of typical E10 Mogas would be if the ethanol iss striped out of it? Certainly it could be used in a lawnmower etc but it would definitely require further consideration or analysis before it could be used in even a 73 octane aircraft engine.

    Stripping alcohol from E10 could be done adding maybe 10 percent water to the E10, shaking for a few minutes, let it all settle, then drain out the alcohol/water from the bottom of the mix. (Maybe repeat if needed?). At this point the remaining fuel (lets call it ~E0) will run in an engine as reduced octane, but it is still going to be saturated with dissolved water. This can be on the order of maybe 200 parts per million (about a cubic inch of water per 5 gallons of ~E0). These numbers depend a lot on the original fuel's petroleum mix.

    The problem with still having dissolved water in the ~E0 is that if and when the ~E0 gets further chilled, the remaining dissolved water will come out of solution, settling in the gascolator or tank drain. Hopefully it will still be a liquid. BUT this would be especially dangerous because when the striped fuel/water mix is chilled below freezing, that water comes out of solution as ice crystals. Only a tiny amount of water coming out of solution as ice crystals can plug a gascolator screen in a few minutes. How quickly depends on the temperature history of the ~E0.

    How to dry the ~E0 fuel? Chilling it colder than it will ever be in service will cause the water to come out of solution as ice crystals. These can be filtered out thru a coffee filter or something similar. Or, adding a deicer such as HEET to the striped ~E0 fuel mix (HEET is a very dry alcohol) will remove residual dissolved water from the ~E0 making it so that it can be drained out very much like the first stripping process above.

    What to do with the drained-out alcohol mixes? Dump them down the drain. It really is just bad booze.

    At this point the dry ~E0, might be suitable for a low compression engine in warmer climates. I'd want to to try it in my lawnmower first.

    Thoughts?

    FWIW, I wrote an article in the Dec 1986 Sport Aviation on the effects of water in gasoline. This was in the days before E10, and the article was only intended to address the effects of dissolved water - not the dissolved alcohol of E10.

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by FlyingRon View Post
    ...in the RVs...they've had real serious reliability issues with EtOH and carbs.
    I was unaware of that. The carbs, huh? I guess the info would be on some RV chat listing?

  9. #9

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    My hangarmate's C-140 had his fuel line swell nearly closed running on partial (~E5) ethanol laced fuel. Turns out the airport had been getting "certified E0 loads" that were actually E10. He thought he was going to have to put it into Lake Superior.

    From my limited knowledge of chemistry, the mixture of a hydrocarbon and alcohol makes a powerful solvent that can do all sorts of mischief to a fuel system elastomers as well as metal components. Supposedly a teflon lined hose would be immune to ethanol laced fuels. In reality there are very few dynamic elastomers in an aircraft carburetor. The only ones I can think of are the primer piston, the quick drains, the gascolator, and the needle & seat valve. The others are all static seals which only turn to mush when things are disassembled.

    But that doesn't eliminate the problems of composite fuel tanks and internal piece-part metal corrosion due to frequent water separation of ethanol laced fuels. The marine people found that out.
    Last edited by nrpetersen; 12-22-2014 at 07:19 PM.

  10. #10
    FlyingRon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cdrmuetzel@juno.com View Post
    I was unaware of that. The carbs, huh? I guess the info would be on some RV chat listing?
    I read it on the Vans Air Force forums a while back. You can probably search on ethanol there...

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