AOPA Webpage fatal accident study

[David Pavlich]

http://www.aopa.org/asf/acs/acs_into...&cmp=ePlt:Phto

I watched this video this morning and it has been buzzing around in my head. I own a tennis shop and while stringing away, I was trying to think of what this pilot should have done or could have done. First, I'm only thinking about getting my license, so my thoughts may be all wet. At any rate, I wanted to talk this through and figured you veteran pilots would add a lot to my thinking.

First, he should have been getting continual updates on the weather and when it was obvious that his destination was degrading, he should have either turned around or diverted. That didn't happen, so...

He was in a Cirrus SR20 so the chances are excellent that he had either the Garmin Perspective avionics or the Avidyne with something like the Garmin 430W. He supposedly had some IFR training. Here's where I probably go off the rail, but I've viewed enough videos and tutorials that without even sitting in a glass cockpit, I could program an IFR flight plan. And there in lies one of my questions: In this situation, when the pilot saw the weather going downhill and even though he wasn't fully IFR trained, had he known how to program the avionics and using the autopilot, could he do an IFR flight plan "on the fly" (bad pun)? I thought that if he could have done that, he could have been vectored in a certain direction, eased up on his cruise speed and programmed in an IFR flight plan to get him back to DuPage? Again, being a Cirrus, it was probably WAAS capable and could have done a coupled approach and at least got him lined up with the runway.

Or am I all wet? Anyway, this incident and how it played out has really got my though processes churning. Thanks for your indulgence to a wanna' be pilot.

David

[Bill Greenwood]

I hope everyone will go to the AOPA website and take the few minutes to see and hear this video.
It is chilling and is the waste of 4 lives, especially the Father killing his 2 daughters,and the young man.

I don't fly a plane with all that fancy Avidyne or Garmin panel stuff, so I am not an expert on it.
BUT I STRONGLY DISAGREE WITH THE IDEA THAT THE PROBLEM WAS THE NOT PROGRAMINGTHE FANCY AVIONICS OR THAT THEY WERE THE SOLUTION.

FIRST, AND ABOVE ALL ELSE , THE PILOT HAD PRECIOUS CARGO IN THAT PLANE, HIS DAUGHTERS WHO WERE DEPENDING ON HIM FOR THEIR SAFETY AND THEIR LIVES.
SO DON'T TAKE ANY CHANCES, FLY IN GOOD VMC OR NOT AT ALL. So you must use more caution and be twice as safe as if you are flying solo. Either don't take off or at the first sign of IMC get to an airport or turn back to home base if that is good VMC.

This pilot was low time, only 207 hours, not instrument rated,not in his own plane, and it is obvious by his radio talk that he was really unfamilar with what he was doing, and perhaps even tower airports or the area and other airports.

He was lucky enough to fly right over Dupage and see it in the mist. He should have landed right then. Instead he sort of wandered around seemingly with no plan and no direction.
The controller several times gave him weather at Palwaukee Executive that was decent VMC, I think 1500 and 3 or 5 miles, but he would not take the hint and go there or perhaps he was trying to put the airport identifier in his GPS to find how to go there. I wonder if he had a sectional, if he had any course lines and headings and any alternates identified on the secitonal.
I'd bet not, that he had all the fancy gadgets on the panel and ended up lost.
He seems to have kept control of the plane, even in the clouds at times for quite some time before losing it. Probably he was using the autopilot for the cruise part of the flight.
He never declared an emergency or asked for any real help other than a few weather updates.

A horrible shame.

One thing I am not sure of is how high the obstacles are in the Chicago area, if he could have gotten below the clouds in good vmc at 900 or so and still cleared the surroundings.

[David Pavlich]

My way of thinking is they should have not departed in the first place with the marginal weather. My question about the progamming in flight was more an exercise in "what could he have done to arrive safely" and not to use electronics to justify making a poor decision to depart in the first place. It is a very somber video that surely makes one think about what drives a person to make a certain decision knowing what the consequences could be. The narrative is very good at pointing out that very thing; concerns about periphreal things and not the most important topic...safety.

David

[Bill]

The real problem is that there are too many competitors for a Darwin Award in the aviation community and they don't care about the effects on others.

[Pearson]

I agree with David, the flight should have never left the ground. My heart goes out to the families of the deceased, but the pilot should not have taken the risks he did that day. Those who do not have an instrument rating do not realize what is involved in earning that rating. I flew for 10 years as a private pilot with an instrument rating. Then I started doing it for a living. Something that has really stood out in my memory was when the examiner giving me my ATP checkride asked me if I knew what the requirements were for the license. I started telling him about the needed hours and the cross country time, etc. Then he asked me if I knew what FAR 61.153 (C) was. I had no idea. He enlightened me that to obtain an ATP you have to "Be of good moral character". That really struck a chord with me. I told him what a great guy I am and asked how this applied to passing my ATP checkride. The example he gave was something about not going below minimums on an approach. I think he gave a second example, but it has been too many years ago. This guy really made an impression on me, and it motivated me to be the absolutely best pilot I could possibly be. He instilled in me that when a non pilot get into a plane with you, they are trusting you with their lives. Maybe if they had a similar FAR requirement for a private pilot license, it could make an impression on a few people to be more responsible. On another note, the airlines and even corporate flight departments are preaching "risk management" to pilots these days. Maybe a few questions on the private pilot written exam regarding risk management could instill in future pilots the importance of addressing risk.

[Sonex1517]

I live in Chicagoland and am a pilot, and this one has stuck in my mind since we heard the news...

I remember the weather that day vividly. There is no way anyone who was not instrument rated and current could have expected to make it to their destination VFR that day. The clouds were low and what VFR conditions did exist were short lived and dicey at best.

When we heard the accident report on the radio here, shortly after it happened, I was stunned. I turned to my wife and said "VFR into IMC."

The pilot was offered help - we listened to the conversation online shortly after the accident. That conversation nearly made me physically ill....ATC did all they could to help him. He refused their advice. The result killed three innocent people. Three young people who had no idea of what the pilot had gotten them into.

This one should be a landmark accident for any pilot of any experience. It should never have happened.

[1600vw]

Myself I believe this goes deeper then flying into IMC. I told a friend this when he said he wants to get a two seater and fly his family. Understand this man is still in training for his LSA certificate, has maybe 40 hrs flying at the most.

This is just me but I would not fly anyone besides myself in anything with the amount of hours I have logged, over 200. I told him fly a single seater for about 500 hrs before thinking about getting a dual seat or two seater.

He mumbled some stuff about how good he is and walked away. As he was walking away I shouted to him to tell every person he flies how many hrs he has and let them decide if they want to fly with him.

Last time I saw this man he would not speak to me.

H.A.S.

[1600vw]

One more thing on this subject......That CFI whom helped him plan this trip......Shame on you.....Your hands are not clean, you where a part of this....This CFI should have stopped this flight before they even fueled the bird.

This {CFI} man or woman knew this man was not rated for IMC and also this person {CFI} knew enough to know the conditions on a day like that can change in min's from VFR to IFR....Poor decision making on the CFI's part since this man {Pilot} asked for help in planing this trip.

H.A.S.

[rosiejerryrosie]

As of this time, no one has really answered David's question as to whether or not it would have been possible to file an IFR flight plan and continue under those conditions. Yes, Dave, it is possible to file a 'pop up' IFR flight plan and continue the flight, if the pilot was qualified to do so. I do agree with everyone who has posted thus far, this guy was not qualified and should have never pulled the plane out of the hangar....

[David Pavlich]

Thanks to all of you! This video has been going in and out of my thoughts as time passes. I guess the fact that even with 250 or so hours, one would think that his judgement should have been on the side of caution and was not is what perplexes me. Ego? Not wanting to disappoint? We'll never know.

Jerry...thanks for answering my question. This has been very eye opening.

David